Brazilian?

[ducktrapper]

Some beautiful wood there, fellow Brazzers!   

[L07 Shooting Star]

You know that 12-string that dee-ten was enquiring about to start this thread?  I took my L-07 and went to see it and compare the two yesterday and I bought it!

It's uncanny how the two are almost identical in terms of woods, body dimensions, etc.  Mine is about 2 years older.  The main difference is in the neck shapes.  The 12-string has a thinner C-shaped profile, while mine is thicker and a soft_V shape.  It's not brazilian rosewood as you all soon figured out.  The seller just thought it was is all.  He was told by someone in the past that it was and he had no reason to question it as his knowledge about the difference is lacking (like mine was till I learned from all of you in this valuable thread).  He seems like an honest person and he wasn't trying to fool anyone, I don't believe.

He bought the guitar new in 1985 in Saskatoon Sask. at St. John's music.  Cosmetically, it is very clean and obviously well looked after.  Hardly a scratch on it.  He hasn't played it much for many years and that was his reason for selling it.  He is actually looking for a quality 6-string to replace it.  He hinted maybe we could trade, and of course I said "no way".  As reported by gracem, there are some neck issues.  The neck relief (up bow) is greater than it should be.  I think it will also need an eventual reset as it is tilted forward (straight edge extended along frets to the bridge registers about 1/16" below the bridge top).  I only did the measurement after I got it home.  So the action past about fret 6 or 7 is pretty high.  It plays well on the lower frets, though.  It intonates very well also, especially for a 12-string which I would think is tougher to accomplish, correct?

I bought it in spite of this since he lowered his price by $250.00 and it is still very playable.  But mostly because the tone is fantastic! (to me at least)  I don't have much experience with 12 strings, but to me it is the best sounding one I've ever heard in person.  I've been playing some Byrds type stuff on it last night and today and it's simply inspiring.  I did my version of "Mr. Tambourine Man" for my wife and this helped to smooth over my purchasing "another guitar that I don' really need".

I'm going to have to get used to the different feel and spacing of the 12-string.  Especially fingerpicking, which I don't do very well anyways (yet)   My left hand fingers are pretty sore today as I've probably played it 3 hours already.  I'll post some pics in the Pictures category soon.  I'd like to post some recordings of both guitars eventually but not quite up on the technology yet.  How do you get a cassete tape to play on here, anyways?

Stay tuned

Kurt

[Randy_R]

 How do you get a cassete tape to play on here, anyways?

Stay tuned

Kurt

You just need to add a Radio Shack TRS80 to your network...    

Good catch on the 12 string. Get it to a good luthier to see if he can make the neck right. Or send it to John Larrivee to be adjusted.

[JOYCEfromNS]

I bought it in spite of this since he lowered his price by $250.00 and it is still very playable. anyways?

Stay tuned

Kurt

It was a heck of a deal to begin with - Where are The Mounties    Well done friend!!!! Everyone should have a 12er

[ducktrapper]

Well done! 

[dee-ten]

  Really glad you bought it!

[L07 Shooting Star]

Thanks all for the kind words.

It all happened so fast.  At first, when I brought it home, I thought, "what the hell did I just do?  Spend that much money on a guitar that needs an expensive repair?" After playing it and especially reading your posts, I'm not having any buyers remorse at all so that's a real good sign.

Kurt

[AZLiberty]

Go ahead and put a set of Martin Silk & Steels on it.  It will be a bit easier to play, and the lower tension is probably a good idea given the neck issue. (also probably help with the neck up-bow)

I like the way they sound, so they are what I have on my D-03R-12

[L07 Shooting Star]

Go ahead and put a set of Martin Silk & Steels on it.  It will be a bit easier to play, and the lower tension is probably a good idea given the neck issue. (also probably help with the neck up-bow)

I like the way they sound, so they are what I have on my D-03R-12

I'll definately try the Martins as you suggest for my first string change.  What guage are they?  However, the strings on it right now are Earthwood Silk and Steel 12-string soft 9 to 46 (9 to 26) which I assume are about as light as they get and maybe similiar to what you are suggesting?

I agree the less tension the better right now.  The guitar is quite loud, which I like.  I think it has a bit more volume than my L-07 but not sure if it's an illusion caused by hearing twice as many strings playing at once.  Is this typical of a 12-string?

I compared the sound of it to the 4 recordings of 12-strings on the forum.  The one it sounds like the most to my ears is the recording of the L-10 12 string spruce/rosewood.  There are no recordings of a D size 12-string, but I bet mine and yours sound pretty similiar.  They all sound good to me anyways.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Kurt

[Michael T]

You may want to adjust the relief before assuming a neck reset, I have heard of few, actually, no, Larri 12's needing resets unless they have been badly abused and with nary a scratch your new acquisition certainly does not sound like it was left on the back porch out of the case winter and summer. My L05-12 is built like a tank and might even take that kind of abuse (just kidding). Have it set up for you! 

btw, I use 11-50's with custom octaves on mine and she loves it.

[Randy_R]

I don't see any mention of adjusting the truss rod on the 12 string. This should have an adjustable truss rod by the date it was made.

btw. Date sold in store is not the same as date made. The v-neck L-09 I have sat in a shop new for several years before it was first bought.

[Michael T]

Here's a couple raw recordings with my L05-12, not bad though for a hand held recorder (I think I used my Edirol on these one take wonders) they are wonders 'cause I got'em in 1 take.


http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7005208

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7072608

[L07 Shooting Star]

I don't see any mention of adjusting the truss rod on the 12 string. This should have an adjustable truss rod by the date it was made.

btw. Date sold in store is not the same as date made. The v-neck L-09 I have sat in a shop new for several years before it was first bought.

THANK-YOU RANDY .  Silly me.  Would you believe because I didn't see a truss rod when casually looking at the neck block, I assumed there was none!  So after I read your post, I got a mirror and looked inside and viola, there it was.  So the guitar was probably made in 1985 or so as the seller stated.  So then I thought, what if my L-07 has one too!  Again, I had never looked carefully inside with a mirror after 25 years of ownership.  So I looked in there but there isn't one, which also helps to date it.  The 2 s/n bear this out.  The L-07 is 072617 and the 12-string is 403656.  I'm assuming the first 2 digits are the model.  If that is true than the 12-string is 1039 units newer.  Anybody know what the "40" designates.  Is it a model number?

So that's the good news.  I can hopefully take some of the relief out of it assuming the truss rod is not damaged or something.
BTW Of course, I realize that a git could sit in the store for a long time before it is bought.

Now for the bad news.  See the next post.

Kurt

[L07 Shooting Star]

As gracem reported there is a gap between the neck heel and the body.  I mentioned it to the seller and even asked him if the neck had ever been removed or repaired.  He told me definitely not.  He claimed to not even be aware of any gaps until I pointed it out.  But who knows for sure.  Gracem, did you mention it to him when you examined it the night before?  I chose to overlook the problem (or maybe pretend it wasn't there, given my infatuation with it).  I bought it knowing about the gap for reasons I gave before.  So now the question of eventual neck reset required or not.  As stated, I did the straight edge along the frets test and there is a drop of at least 1/16".  See pics attached.  I also accurately measured the gap at several points around the heel with feeler gauges.  The neck is definitely tilted forward.  The gap is widest at the heel cap and narrows down to zero more or less where the neck joins the top of the guitar.  It's also slightly wider at the treble side than the bass side.  One thing that bothers me, but may or may not be significant is the gap is not consistently narrower from cap to top (in other words, not a wedge with perfectly straight sides).  Rather, it gets a little wider at one point along it's length of both sides of the heel.  Suggesting the heel's contour doesn't perfectly match the countour of the guitar's body and has maybe been shaved at some point?  I can't see it coming from the factory that way.  On the other hand, maybe I am just seeing the results of it pulling away and maybe some slightly deformed wood or dried glue?

Any comments on this would be appreciated.  If the action can be lowered enough with the truss rod should I worry about it?  I guess the worst that can happen is it will get wider over time.  Of course I will get it checked out by a luthier, but until then...........

Not sure I described that very well.  The pics should tell the story though.

Kurt

[attachment deleted by admin]

[L07 Shooting Star]

I think my last two posts are not really about Brazilian vs Indian Rosewood, as intended by the OP.  So I'm going to start a new thread in the repair section about the need for neck work on my 12-string.  It probably belongs there and not in this topic.

Kurt