T-40 series

[Traveler2233]

Greetings Larrivee enthusiasts! I've got a T-40, Mahogany, which I love though I wish it had better bass response. (I have hand problems and have to use low tension, 12-52 strings so that's part of it.) I've read the T-40 rosewood has a more robust low end so I'd love to hear thoughts from anyone who has played this guitar. Thanks in advance!

[teh]

I don't own one and haven't played a T sized Larrivee but they do look interesting. I'd like to hear your overall assessment of this model. While I don't know what the recommended string gauge is have you tried tuning your T-40 down a whole step to enhance the bass? I also noticed that Larrivee does not list a T-40 rosewood model on their website but they do show a T-44 rosewood model which is full gloss instead of satin and costs about $1,200 more.

My two smallest Larrivees are a spruce/maple parlor (24" scale) and an all mahogany 00-24 (24.9" scale), both 12 fret models. Either scale length would put you closer to the 22.8" scale you're used to now. Putting either of these guitars in a dropped D or open tuning enhances the bass without detracting from the mids or trebles.

[StringPicker6]

The way I understand it, the T model is the smallest and it's small size is ideal for travel. If you are considering going for another guitar in rosewood for more bass, you might want to look at the parlor model or the 00 size. The Larrivee website has a really cool model comparison tool so you can match up a t size with parlor and 00 and they list the dimensions side by side. The parlor isn't that much bigger than the T.

[B0WIE]

The above posts are steering you in the right direction. East Indian Rosewood softens the highs a bit and can give a sense of warmth in the bass. But, in very small instruments, it doesn't have as big an impact as the woods are not able to resonate as much. Body volume (the size) will have a much bigger impact on the bass response and volume. Given that the move to rosewood is quite a big cost increase, you might consider having another guitar that you can tune lower (which is nice on the hands). It really depends on whether the T format is suiting you perfectly or not.

 For hand health, you want to look at the scale length and string tension. Your T-40's 22.8" scale is great on the hands and much easier than the full 25.5" of a full-scale acoustic. A Larrivee Parlour is 24", right in-between. The string gauge can be chosen to determine how much actual tension is felt. I've found that the super-short scale lengths start to cause the strings to get a bit floppy, which limits the power and volume. You need to use thicker strings to compensate and then the tension goes back up. A 24" scale can satisfy a few things in that it's much less tension than 25.5, allows you to use standard strings and even down tune if you want (which further lowers tension), and can still have a good bass response.

 I know your question was about rosewood but I feel there's things that will have a greater impact than just the back wood. While my hands are generally healthy, I tend to get repetitive stress injuries every so often and I find it helps to have guitars that feel different. That may not be applicable to you but being able to use a guitar with extremely low tension really helps some days. Plus, having different sounds is nice. If you wanted to stick with one guitar I might suggest seeing if Larrivee would build you a T40/44 with a cedar top and rosewood back. That's a really good pairing for a warm, full tone in a small guitar.

[Traveler2233]

Many thanks to all of you for you for taking care to write thoughtful responses. Sadly, my hands are a real problem and I can't play a 24* scale length guitar anymore. (I'm selling a terrific 24in Martin D Jr for this reason.) The 22.8 scale length is all I can do although I can play a 23.5 in. GS mini, which also has the benefit of a narrower nut width than the 1 3/4 on the larrivee (which is too wide for a few songs), but everything else about it is perfect so I ain't giving that up.) So really, I've come to the conclusion that the only combo is the GS mini (for some songs) and a T-series for everything else. That's why I'm interested in trading out the T-40M for a T-40R. Continued thoughts on the T series welcome!

[StringPicker6]

One other thought: have you considered installing a pickup and getting a small acoustic amp to be able to turn up the bass? I'm a big fan of the LR Baggs hifi pickup. It's $199 and sticks to the bottom of your guitar's bridge plate.

[B0WIE]

Many thanks to all of you for you for taking care to write thoughtful responses. Sadly, my hands are a real problem and I can't play a 24* scale length guitar anymore. (I'm selling a terrific 24in Martin D Jr for this reason.) The 22.8 scale length is all I can do although I can play a 23.5 in. GS mini, which also has the benefit of a narrower nut width than the 1 3/4 on the larrivee (which is too wide for a few songs), but everything else about it is perfect so I ain't giving that up.) So really, I've come to the conclusion that the only combo is the GS mini (for some songs) and a T-series for everything else. That's why I'm interested in trading out the T-40M for a T-40R. Continued thoughts on the T series welcome!

In that case, if you feel strongly about the T40 but want a warmer tone, my recommendation would again be a custom in cedar as I mentioned above. I have one acoustic in a very short scale and the cedar/rosewood really helps add richness and sustain while mellowing out the highs, helping counter the shortcomings of short, small bodied guitars.

[Traveler2233]

Great suggestion, Bowie! To order one, would I email the Larrivee Co? There's nowhere that I can see on the Larrivee website for custom orders. Many thanks..

[Traveler2233]

One other thought: have you considered installing a pickup and getting a small acoustic amp to be able to turn up the bass? I'm a big fan of the LR Baggs hifi pickup. It's $199 and sticks to the bottom of your guitar's bridge plate.

Definitely a possibility, Stringpicker...

[B0WIE]

Great suggestion, Bowie! To order one, would I email the Larrivee Co? There's nowhere that I can see on the Larrivee website for custom orders. Many thanks..

It used to be that you had to go through Larrivee dealers but I believe they may be taking direct orders if you call in. Would probably be worth calling direct and mentioning what your goal is as they might be about to suggest other features that could help. For instance, string spacing, fret board radius, etc. If you find you have a preference regarding any of those things you can bring it up.

[Traveler2233]

Thank you, good man. This is so helpful. Yes, I'd like to talk about most of the things you mentioned to get the best sound and ease of play out of the T-40R. I'll call them this week. I also want to say to everyone that the T-40 is a truly unique and outstanding guitar. My problem is that I have to use a gauge no higher than 51, so I'm trying to buy the best combinations of woods etc, I can for low tension, low gauge strings. But with the right strings, at the gauge it's designed for, the tone of this little beauty is spectacular. Rich, articulate, resonant, responsive, and lovely. I recommend it to anyone who, for whatever reason, might be interested in a wonderful little 22.8 scale-length guitar.

[teh]

Traveler,

You have just heard from two Forum Members (StringPicker and Bowie) who are knowledgeable and bring a lot of practical first hand experience to this forum. I've gained a lot of perspective and insights from visiting this site. I keep coming back to Larrivee because of their commitment to finding the right wood and their attention to detail throughout the build process.

You can contact Larrivee directly at info@Larrivee.com to ask about your specific situation. I also stand corrected from my original post. Larrivee does have a T-40R (Rosewood) listed on their company website price list but not in the catalog.

Personally, I bought my first two Larrivees including one from a local dealer who retired and closed up his shop in 2018. In 2021/22, I dealt directly with John, Jr. when I ordered my Forum VI guitar. When they introduced the 24 series last year, I wrote in and asked if they would make me a 00-24 with a mahogany top instead of the standard Adirondack Spruce and it took about 4.5 months to build and I've had it for almost nine months now.

There are also some great Larrivee dealers in the network including Heartbreaker Guitars (Las Vegas), Tune-Up Guitars (Boise, ID) and Sweetwater Guitars (Fort Wayne, IN). I'm not affiliated with any of them but I would have no reservations about contacting any of them. I do think the T sized body is one of Larrivee's hidden gems and Heartbreaker had 6 or 8 listed on their website that were sold.

FWIW, Martin also used to make a 3/4 size 5-18 (Terz) model with a 21.4" scale length and that was Marty Robbins' main stage/recording guitar. This model is only available now through the custom shop but you have to be sitting down in a quiet place when you see the prices. YOWZA!

[jrdavies]

Traveler,

If you don't think the T-40 will get you were you want, here are a couple of non Larrivee alternatives.  Composite Acoustics made a 3/4 size guitar with a 22.75" scale called the Cargo.  Peavey bought CA a few years ago and continued making them for a while but I am not sure if they still do.  If you can live with the scale length they sound more like a full sized guitar than many smaller guitars. I have owned a couple of Parlors and love my Larrivee OOs. I was surprised at the quantity and quality of lower notes when I first played a Cargo. 

The other suggestion would a Daniel Ho six string made by Romero Creations.  They have a 21" scale and come in steel or nylon strings. I haven't played one but Pepe and Daniel have taken a lightly different direction.  There are few demos online you can check out to get an idea of what they sound like.

Good Luck with your search!

[Traveler2233]

Thanks JR, actually, I do play an Outdoor guitalele (20 in scale, baritone uke size)! I spent a long time researching guitalele's and the Soundsmith and the carbon fiber Outdoor are the only ones with a narrow enough nut for me. (I know, it's all crazy.) The Outdoor, made in Bend Oregon, sounds better than the all the ones I tried and is an excellent instrument for those interested. But it's not like playing a guitar. Will definitely look at Composite Acoustics but their website is currently down.

[jrdavies]

You might need to look for a used Cargo as I can't find them on the Peavey's web site.  I believe the founder of Composite Acoustics worked for McPherson after he sold CA to Peavey and had a hand in designing their Carbon Fiber Touring guitar.  I haven't had the chance to play one, They are about the same size as the Cargo. 

[Traveler2233]

Thanks Jr, appreciate your help..

[Traveler2233]

If you feel strongly about the T40 but want a warmer tone, my recommendation would again be a custom in cedar as I mentioned above.

Bowie, or whomever... When we speak of a "warmer" tone, does that mean a more pronounced low end, and less pronounced high end? Thanks!

[B0WIE]

Bowie, or whomever... When we speak of a "warmer" tone, does that mean a more pronounced low end, and less pronounced high end? Thanks!

Everyone has their own interpretation but, I use terms like that in a professional context and the most widely-understood meaning would be a fullness in the bass and low-midrange coupled with a gentle high frequency response. With regard to cedar, the high frequencies don't have the sharp, aggressive qualities spruce has. Everything sounds a little more "rounded off" and gentle while having a very fast response. The extra overtones give a complexity and detail in the mid and low-mid frequencies. The bass is not deep and thumping, it's more full and sustaining.  As you go smaller in body size, the smaller and more harsh things can sound. Cedar is one way to balance that and I've been really surprised at how smooth it can make a small guitar sound. 

[Traveler2233]

I can't tell you how helpful your posts have been, Bowie. Def calling Larrivee about a custom option (w Cedar top etc) soon. Thahks so much!

[Traveler2233]

For anyone out there who remembers my earlier thread on the T-40 guitars, I wanted to mention that in August, I called and spoke to John (or Matt?) Larrivee, and custom-ordered a T-40R (spruce, and rosewood b/s) with what he called a "fast neck," which has a 1 11/16 nut width and narrower string spacing. (He steered me away from a cedar top, which Bowie had recommended. And both the Daniel Ho guitars and the Cargo Acoustics travel guitars have 1.75 nuts.) I wouldn't have thought to go through this process had it not been advised by Bowie and others on this forum, so for that I'm ever grateful. Thanks fellas! It will be ready sometime this winter and I'm very psyched. I'll report back when it arrives.