Is intonation THAT important?

[StringPicker6]

Is it bad that I don't really care about intonation? From what I understand, you play each string at the 12th fret and see if it's still in tune for the string note. But I don't play lead, and I don't play past the 12th fret. Any other reason to be concerned about intonation? It seems to be a thing for people who play electric lead.

[B0WIE]

Intonation is critical for me. Not as much for electrics (and definitely not for solos) but absolutely on acoustics because you hear so many notes played on top of each other. That's when intonation is relevant. Especially from the 0 to the 1st fret. The most overlooked area on an acoustic. The sour sound of a poorly intonated acoustic is really off putting for me.

That said, the guitar is not designed to be perfectly intonated and the SLIGHT flaws add a certain character. If you hear one of those guitars with the modified frets (the ones that look like roots), they lack a degree of fullness and power in chord delivery (to my ears) because everything aligns too tight. The imperfections in a normal fret board are something our ears accept.

But, I go way out of my way to make sure my guitars are intonated as good as you can get at the nut and saddle because it makes a huge difference in quality to my ears.

[William2]

Well, if you can't hear it and you're playing by yourself I suppose not. But if you are playing with a string player, they will let you know you are out of tune. My second Martin DSS-17 had this problem. The 12th fret was in tune with the 12th fret harmonic on the first 3 strings, but the 3 bass strings weren't. and it got worse from the 4th to the 6th string. The main theme on the Villa lobos Prelude #1 is played on the bass strings against a chordal accompaniment on the trebles. I had to bend the melody note on the string to make the note in tune. And I didn't have to go to the 12th fret to notice this problem. That's when I decided no more Martin guitars. But tuning is important to me. When I played lute, the lute had gut strings tied around its neck. You could make slight adjustments to the intonation of a note by lowering or angling the fret. I currently use the Johnny Smith method for tuning my guitar.

[Queequeg]

I use a lot of harmonics in my playing so intonation is important.
But as William says, if you aren't hearing it then I guess that's the main thing. 
However, I believe we should be listening for and attempting get the best sound the instrument and the musician are capable of producing. In other words, training our ears as discreet listening devices. We work a lifetime in the process; don't we?
It could be that your ear is acclimated to and thus accepting a certain degree of disharmony.
Even strumming a chord in the first position will set off high frequency harmonics which will enrich the overall musicality of the instrument when properly intonated.
Many 1970s vintage CF Martins were rather infamous for placing the bridge and saddle incorrectly making proper intonation virtually impossible.
Tangentially, unclrob has posted here more than once about switching a right-handed guitar to become a lefty without rerouting the bridge or repositioning the saddle and he insists that the intonation is near 'spot on'.
Go figure.

[John Lee Pettimore]

This is an old thread but I'm going to reply because I believe intonation is very important to a guitar's voice.  I've heard dramatic voice improvement in  thoroughly intonated guitars that I thought sounded great before intonating.  My Larrivee is only the latest example of this phenomena. 

I check and intonate new to me guitars at open, 1, 2, 12, 13, 14 fret notes.  I usually have to tweak string slot depth and machine side bugling at the nut, and final scale length at the saddle.  Substantive note fidelity and tuning stability can be gained through intonation.  Such can reasonably only improve a voice in my experience. 

[William2]

I don't know if it was my years playing early music or what, but with my return to the guitar I seem to spend more time now than in my youth on tuning issues. When I played lute, I often angled my tied-on gut frets to get a desired meantone tuning and those perfect thirds. And when I switched to the recorder, I had a set of renaissance recorders pitched at 466 Hz and bored for meantone tuning even though it limited the number of keys these instruments could play in. Now, with the guitar I have just adjusted to having pretty good intonation. I do wonder however if this V class bracing Taylor talks about enables better intonation in upper register of the instrument. If true, I would be very temped to get a Taylor just to experience this.

[jpmist]

Is it bad that I don't really care about intonation?

I'm in no position to judge you or anyone on that, but simply here to relate that when I got a new Fender Telecaster Acoustasonic, the biggest surprise was how well the intonation was set. My chord changes and fingerstyle notes all seemed right on the money. Such a pleasant surprise! With all my other acoustics, I suppose I had simply gotten accustomed to being "close enough", so when the new kid in town showed up it was a refreshing change of pace.

All that said, correcting intonation on an accoustic isn't easy compared to an electric. Larrivee offers a compensated B saddle, but I've ended up with compensated B with wave versions. My wave saddles have the bass edge as far back from the nut as it can go. The one bone saddle I made from scratch turned out pretty well with 3 strings being almost dead on and 3 strings being off less than 4 cents.

I suppose your best result would come from a custom made saddle from a seriously good luthier, second place might be swapping in a wave B compensated saddle if your bass intonations are off. Those aren't hard to find on-line.

[BlueBowman]

When a guitar is as "in-tune as it can be," that guitar will sound its best. Intonation is crucial for me, and I spend a lot of time dialing it in on a guitar over the first few string changes. It is WELL worth the effort.

If you're a player who doesn't notice it, maybe have a very good tech (few and far between, unfortunately) dial things in for you, and see if you hear a difference. If not, then that's one less thing to think about. If so, you'll sound all the better for it!

I suppose your best result would come from a custom made saddle from a seriously good luthier, second place might be swapping in a wave B compensated saddle if your bass intonations are off. Those aren't hard to find on-line.

I'd recommend everyone learn to make their own custom saddles and do their own set-ups. With just a few basic tools, you can have your guitar playing better than ever imagined. For saddles, I make my own variations on the "wave." It's a good starting point, and then over time you can dialing the intonation in a little at a time. Some guitars need only slight tweaks, while others require ADDING bone to the top backside of the nut (thanks, Martin). 

[unclrob]

Ever saddle comes with the "B"compensated  needed or not.I mostley make non-comp saddles with no issue's.My 98 L10 koa was a lefty that all I did was replace the nut.The guy at the store I bought it from amazed how well it played in tune up the neck.I have a friend who is a jazzer and he too was amazed at how in tune it was.

[BlueBowman]

Ever saddle comes with the "B"compensated  needed or not.I mostley make non-comp saddles with no issue's.My 98 L10 koa was a lefty that all I did was replace the nut.The guy at the store I bought it from amazed how well it played in tune up the neck.I have a friend who is a jazzer and he too was amazed at how in tune it was.

Larrivee's definitely come pretty well-intonated straight from the factory. Better than most of their competition, IME. I've only had to tweak things a little on the ones I've owned.

[Queequeg]

Here's an unusual saddle on a luthier-built guitar I acquired about a year ago.
Intonation is good, but I doubt if that was the motivation here.

[BlueBowman]

I've seen that before on luthier-built guitars, though usually the spaces in-between the strings on the nut are scalloped. Yours looks notched out. I could be wrong, but I think the idea is to lessen the weight at the bridge? 

[B0WIE]

Larrivee's definitely come pretty well-intonated straight from the factory. Better than most of their competition, IME. I've only had to tweak things a little on the ones I've owned.

My one frustration with Larrivee is that the saddle placement doesn't allow for intonating down tuning. I've had to create saddles that hang past the slot on the low E in order to intonate when tuned even half a step down. It's a non issue for most players, and not exclusive to Larrivee, but it is something I've had to do numerous times because I don't tune in standard.

I've seen that before on luthier-built guitars, though usually the spaces in-between the strings on the nut are scalloped. Yours looks notched out. I could be wrong, but I think the idea is to lessen the weight at the bridge? 

I've seen this rationalized in various ways, including separating the vibration of each string. However, that doesn't work because of how an acoustic top vibrates. The one above looks to be intentionally artistic. I don't think a luthier would go through the headache of creating such clean, square lines for anything other than art.

[BlueBowman]

I've seen this rationalized in various ways, including separating the vibration of each string. However, that doesn't work because of how an acoustic top vibrates. The one above looks to be intentionally artistic. I don't think a luthier would go through the headache of creating such clean, square lines for anything other than art.

Yeah, I was guessing with the "reduce weight" theory. I never thought about the art angle. It's certainly a good way to distinguish your guitars from everyone else.

And it's pretty clear that the bridge design above was thought out carefully. From the pic, the most mass seems to be on the center backside where it is needed most in order to guard against perpetual string tension. I also enjoy the gradual decline in bridge height (right to left in pic) towards the treble side. Those subtle details always make me smile