Home recording - what do I need?

[BenF]

I posted this elsewhere, but thought a new thread might bring more responses.

I have no cash to spend just now, so this is theoretical, but if I were starting from scratch, and wanted a set up for recording guitars and vocals, ability to do some editing after recorings and potentially some multi tracking etc, where would I start.  Bear in mind I haven't got a clue here - and jargon makes my head spin.  Would I be best with a Mac laptop rather than a Windows based laptop (I have neither at present), and what would I need to go with it in terms of hardware and software.  Would i need seperate mics for guitar and vocals.  One pre-requisite for me would have to be portability/storage space, as I have no dedicated guitar space.  I would need to be able to set up for a few hours and pack it all away again.

Those of you who know about this stuff, basically if you were buying a whole set up from scratch, within a realistic budget, what would you recommend.

I am interested in this, and would like to know what to aim for in terms of a number.  Neither of my guitars have pickups, so I would be recording direct to a mic, which I understand is the best sounding method anyway.  If you suggest certain bits of kit, please explain what they do, because that is really what I want to know.

Forgive my ignorance on the topic.  I suspect that others might find your suggestions interesting too, however.  I am hopeful that this might turn into a good resource for beginners like me.

[ducktrapper]

Hey Ben. What you need is cash for toys! Ha ha. Seriously, to start with you'll need a place to record, at least one decent condenser mic or maybe something like an SM57, stand(s), cord(s), a simple multi track recorder, maybe a mixer if your recorder doesn't have one (maybe even the one in your computer) and some headphones and speakers. After that, the sky's the limit. Eventually, you just get get better and better stuff and you get better and better at it.
I recently picked up a Boss BR1600. What a blast! I made my first recording yesterday. Two guitars, bass and internal drum track. I'm pumped! My RS-4 turns out to be the greatest electric guitar I've ever used and it records sensationally. I sound like Jeff Beck (yeah I know he uses strats) or something. I hate being at work today.  
I have a Boss BR8 multi track recorder and around 25 zip discs for sale, btw.

[claudefr]

Hi,

This is a big question! It all depend on what you consider a realistic budget. If you have a good computer, just add a simple USB sound card with 2 XLR inputs, 1 condenser mic for the guitar and one SM58 for the voice with stands. Add a good pair of headphone and your are in business for recording with a nearly professionnal sound. This can cost you around 1500 $. As software, you can use Audacity. It is free and very good multi tracks engine. (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/)

From that, you can add goods monitors and a mixer for more flexibility.

Hope that help you.

Claude

[BenF]

Interesting. I use a zoom h2 just now. It records in mp3 or wav format. Can I combine that with audacity to multitrack? I prefer the idea of a pc or mac based system, as I find organising stuff much easier on a big screen.  I had a boss micro-br, and found it very fiddly to use. The zoom is great because you just press record and start strumming. It would be great if you could then edit on screen afterwards.

Is this possible?

What is the difference between a condenser mic and a normal mic?

[ducktrapper]

Ben - As far as the difference between condenser and dynamic mics ... GIYF. Google is your friend. We can't answer every question.  

[jeremy3220]

What is the difference between a condenser mic and a normal mic?

Here's a good article that explains microphone basics
http://homerecording.about.com/od/microphones101/a/mic_types.htm

[claudefr]

Just plug your H2 with a USB cable to your computer and it become a USB microphone direct input. You have to select it as input in Audacity prefs. I dont have one but i saw a demo of it. Or, record as wave to have good quality and by plug in your H2 with usb cable it will becone a external hard drive. You cand then copy the file to your computer and using Import sound in Audacity, place it one track and edit it on screen.

By the way, if you dont, use the beta version of Audacity (1.3.8) it is bar far bettre then the stable version.

Claude

[BenF]

Thanks claude, i'll have a better look at Audacity at the weekend.  Seems like a good place to start with zero investment required. 

Duck, sorry for asking dumb questions, I kind of take this place for granted because 95% of all my guitar related knowledge has come from this place. I will do my homework. I kind of hoped that this thread might be useful for more than just me, however, hence trying to cover lots of bases instead of just my own questions.

[ducktrapper]

Thanks claude, i'll have a better look at Audacity at the weekend.  Seems like a good place to start with zero investment required. 

Duck, sorry for asking dumb questions, I kind of take this place for granted because 95% of all my guitar related knowledge has come from this place. I will do my homework. I kind of hoped that this thread might be useful for more than just me, however, hence trying to cover lots of bases instead of just my own questions.

There are no dumb questions, just a lot of Tom Sawyers. 
Seriously, there are better explanations out there than any we could give you and if you're careful you can avoid the misinformation that is rife on the ol' net.   

[Danny]

There are no dumb questions, just a lot of Tom Sawyers.     

And a few Huck Finn's.

          (You will be able to spot these Hucksters because along with their  they carry a fishing pole)

[obe-wan]

Gday Ben, Ive got what I consider a very basic set up that is easy to use and yields very good quality recordings. Firstly Ive got a Tascam DP-02CF, a reasonable simple 8-track digital recorder that has sliders and knobs for EQs and levels etc, so you dont have to go into any menus or anything to adjust the track, its all right in front of you. It takes CF cards or you can run straight out using the USB port. It has two mic inputs, and phantom power which you'll need if your going to use Condenser mics (you want condenser mics, they have more sensitive diaphragms and wider frequency response). You can do stereo recordings, or use one for a small condenser mic for instruments and have the other hooked up to a large condenser mic for vocals or ambient or distant micing.

The unit however doesnt have any onboard effects, which I actually consider a good thing. It gets a nice pure signal that way. A mate of mine has the model with effects but gets a lot of hiss in his recordings. I simply bought an Alesis Nanoverb and ran it through the effects send/return of the tascam.

For mics, my large condenser mic is a relatively cheap Audio-Technica AT2020 large condenser mic, and I also have a Shure PG81 small condenser mic. I could probably get away with just the Audio-Technica. The Alesis, and the mics can all be purchased for under $100 US each. (ebay is your friend here). I also have a pair of Behringer earphones, I didnt spend too much on these as my theory is Id prefer to do the mastering and mix down through studio monitors. (which I havent got around to purchasing yet). Add 2 mic stands, and Ive actually made up a large angled base plate so I can mount the Tascam on a low straight mic stand and Im ready to go anywhere. Ive used it to record jam sessions at mates places, took it away on holidays etc. the manual is available on line. If youve got a CD burner on your home computer you're away!

The whole lot cost me around $750.00 Australian. Obviously I still have to add monitors.

http://www.tascam.com/products/dp-02cf.html

http://www.zzounds.com/item--AUTAT2020

http://www.zzounds.com/item--SHUPG81

http://www.zzounds.com/item--ALENANOVERB


Cheers, Scott.

[tadol]

Ben - This may be sacrilege to those serious about recording, but if you really have no money to spend and you already have a Zoom, then you can use either the Mac or PC with Audacity (free!) and you have everything you need. You can record your guitar alone with the zoom, copy it into Audacity, and then play that back into headphones (oops, ok, you'll need to get some inexpensive headphones that fit your PCs headphone jack ) while recording a vocal track alongside the instrument track. You can keep adding tracks, recording them with the Zoom as a USB mic. In Audacity you can play with levels and tweak things around a bunch on each track. Its a really powerful program, and if you have never played with it, its got one heck of a learning curve ( or maybe I'm just slow ). It's less than ideal, but you already have everything you need and don't need to spend anything more just to have a little fun.

The one advantage a newish Mac will offer is Garage Band, which will give you access to hundreds of instruments that you can add to your recording just "playing" them on the keyboard. It will do all the things Audacity does as well. I have started playing with using it to create a "rhythm" track, and then use that to keep my guitar playing timed properly so that it is easier to add other instruments. Again, I'm pretty slow, but I think I can make it work. I saw a guitarist who performed on a cruise ship who built his backup band in Garage Band, saved various versions of each song as MP3s, loaded those into Itunes, and then played them from his iPod while he played his guitar and sang live - it was a real eye-opener. By having multiple versions of songs, he could adjust his set to the tone and feedback of the audience -

A fun thing to do with the Zoom is to record yourself playing around with stuff, then you can save come good bits and copy and paste them to make a "loop", and then record yourself over that -  Amazing how much time you can play with this, and still have nothing decent to show for it -

Again - this is based on the "no money to spend model" - I'm sure if you spend a thousand bucks, you can get alot better stuff - but you have enough to have some very cheap fun!

Tad

[BenF]

This sounds like a lot of fun! I just sold my laptop stupidly, as we have a good desktop and iPhones for everthimg else. Sigh. Might need to reconsider the location of the desktop, or put some wheels on it!

Thanks for all the responses guys, very useful picture building up here.

One more question for now, about effects. The general consensus seems to be getting a piece of hardware to add effects, prior to the computer input. Can the computer not do this with software? Why is it better to do it before that?

And tad, my one remnant from my brief encounter with electric guitars as a cracking pair of headphones, so I am all set!!!

[hatofthecat]

One more question for now, about effects. The general consensus seems to be getting a piece of hardware to add effects, prior to the computer input. Can the computer not do this with software? Why is it better to do it before that?

There are plenty of free effects "VST plugins" you can use with Audacity and many other software recording tools on PC or Mac (I use Reaper myself as has a more mixing desk feel  www.reaper.fm the evaluation version is complete and not time bombed, single user licence is $60 which is pretty cheap for a full function audio desk).  Is best just to record the clean sound of guitar and vocals and then work on them.

If portability and cost are important then using your Zoom H2 as portable recorder/mic with a laptop for mixing is a really practical way to go.  Carting a laptop, mics plus audio intercafe box & cables around..... no thanks.  The dedicated recording consoles can be nice to use as they are more tactile (proper sliders, buttons that do what the label says) and you don't have to worry about software all co-operating but you still need to add mics and stands etc. (there are some models with inbuilt mics though so you can use them just like the H2 but also mix and multi-track).

Pete

[BenF]

Thanks Pete.  This is all beginning to build a pretty decent picture in my mind.  I am gonna have a bash at Audacity this weekend.  I'll need to do some juggling with computers, as i have no laptop at present (I use my work laptop a lot at home, but won't risk getting fired by installing new programs on it).


Last question I promise.  One of the reasons for asking was because I have no laptop, but may well get one in the future with this particular use high on the agenda.  I hear many people say a Mac is better for music than a windows based PC.  I can't understand any particular reason for this, however.  I appreciate that Microsoft have less supporters in the America/Canada than in Europe.  Is that the main reason, just the Apple v Microsoft thing, or are there real advantages to a Mac for music purposes?

[hatofthecat]

Is that the main reason, just the Apple v Microsoft thing

Yes as always

or are there real advantages to a Mac for music purposes?

Not really

Mac's did have some very definite advantages a few years ago with faster/better processors and availability of specialist audio processing software but the gap has all but gone now and its just a cost vs style argument now.  Either will do just fine but a Mac will give you that "bohemian at work" cache if you choose to do your mixing in Starbucks    (..other global corporate coffee shops are available).

For proper mixing the only other thing to have is some "near-field" monitor speakers.  These aren't expensive and will allow you to hear the sound in a "neutral" way that headphones just won't do (.... unless you are one of those people who think music sounds ok through ear plugs on a MP3 player..... "my arse !"....).  The "active" ones have inbuilt amplifier so one one less item for the shopping list.  Edirol do some keenly priced ones.

Pete

[BenF]

Cool, thanks for all the answers. 

I started a thread that didn't turn into an argument 

I think I'll just retire now.

[hatofthecat]

I started a thread that didn't turn into an argument

  ..well done, now you can treat yourself to a rowie 

Pete