pass on your tips

[Mantula]

One thing that helped me find new ways to express myself musically was utilizing open tunings. Tune to a G, E, D,Dminor, etc and then just use the chord shapes you know from standard tuning and move them about the fretboard and you will discover all kinds of great sounding cool inversions. You get the benefit of using shapes you are already familiar fingering, but the alternate tuning creates different relationships with those shapes so its a win, win in my book. Plus, it helps develop your ear simply because you really don't know what you are playing and have to really listen to the changes you are constructing! Happy hunting!

+1 to that, exactly what I did when I started to explore the open C tuning. Even if there'd be chord diagrams available, I don't care - just trying to figure out grips myself.
Furthermore, while doing so, listen to yourself and let these new harmonics inspire you into writing new stuff. Works for me.
Eventually you'll need to look for new strings as well and - of course - new guitars 

[pennerblue]

Great post flatlander...thanks to everyone for the tips.  As a novice trying desperately to become intermediate, I'm loving these tips.

Thanks to all   

So maybe a novice/intermediate can toss in some advice as well...
OK, here's an easy one that sounds great.  "Strange Fire" by the Indigo girls.

E (standard) 4x, 4 beats, that is..
007600  2x (slide up the neck and raise the middle finger)
E 4x
007600 2x

000230 2x
000233 2x hammer hold
000230 1x
002100 2x

000230 2x
000233 2x hammer hold
000230 1x
002100 2x

099800 (standard E slid up the neck, nice and jangly) 4x
007600 2x (move back down two frets and raise the middle finger)
then repeat back to the deep standard E (really thump the bass strings!)

This was the first song I learned that included chords other than the standard forms in the first three frets.  I still love it and play it all the time.

Be well, Penner

[flatlander]

Thanks for keeping things rolling!
Side note. I lived in little five points in Atlanta when they were getting started. Saw them quite a few times. (I have to really like someone to see them more the a time or 2) Emily was always a very good musician. Amy solid rythm.  Together, well they are one of those types that were meant to be together. A chemistry like family. Great harmony and great songwriters. I remember 20 years ago now, having breakfast (noon) at LFP pub and they were sitting in booth next to me plotting thier carreer. With thier glasses on and both looking quite studious with papers scattered all over table. They had hooked up with REM manager/promoter? Mr Russell I believe, a lawyer from Decatur. Anyway a few months later that first national album came out and the rest is history. Congrats to them. 2 fine women who do a lot to try to make the world a better place. I've still got one of thier mic stands from a mix up at gig. I'm sure they've replaced mine they inadvertantly got!
With the 3 open up the neck chords I put in a couple posts ago, I've written a song. When I get a couple little kinks worked out I'll share.

[pennerblue]

Cool story.  I saw them warm up for REM on that tour, it was quite a treat!

[flatlander]

Pennerblue. I looking at what you supplied this a.m. You added anther chord for my open the neck opens and on that could spawn more using 3rd and 4th strings fretted. That's the 007600.. Those are the kind of things Emily always did that I couldn't pick up on at the time just watching.. The ones up the neck. upon further exploration. (doesn't that sound heavy?!) The E and Em chords are particularly "open" to this idea as so many open string are part of chords.  A couple examples that work good out of Em
from bass to trebles
0 10 9 0 0 0
0 9 7 0 0 0 (Use open strings at own discretion and peril
0 7 5 0 0 0
0 5 5 0 0 0
Of course reg Em which can be hammered on from open nicely as well as quick slide from Em to 0 5 5 0 0 0 and back.
Try walking these chords right down the line and adding hammers and or slide up to 5th to get familiar!
Keep em comin and when I have a chance I need to go back and notate my earlier post properly. 

[BenF]

This will probably not be of much interest to anyone, but I came on this forum as a novice of 10 years attempted self teaching, and have already picked up tips from friendly folk on here that have advanced me more in 4 months, since I became a Larry owner, than i did in the previous 10 years put together.

If there is anyone else who is as pathetic a player as me, this might be worth something, though.  I have been learning a lot of Neil Young tracks lately, and ones that were tabbed with dropped tunigs I ignored as beyond me.  Today I tried some of them (Ohio and Don't Let it get You Down) and was impressed with how easy it was, what new sunds were opened up and how good these simple tracks sounded.  I learned them both in DADGBD.  If you are a beginner, and haven't tried this, do it now!!!!

Thanks again to everyone who has helped me on here.

[flatlander]

" I learned them both in DADGBD.  If you are a beginner, and haven't tried this, do it now!!!!"
Try midnight rider in that tuning. D just fretting 2&3 strings. A lot of people use some kind of C and G for the other 2 chords which kinda works but it's actually m7th's G to A like 3x333x - 5x555x. I get the 2-3-4 strings by smashing (barre) with ring and middle finger on 6th.
Also check this with that tuning to get started.
000230 (the D) but up to likes of these 000560  000780  (000 -10- 10- 0) Then find more incoperating the 1st string as well. You can play some pretty easy lead type stuff while guitar is ringing and full.
Go to http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=869113 and click on rainmaker for an example of this. Capo on 2nd fret for that. If I'm counting right, specifically on the 5th and 6th meausre of break it's all 2nd and 3rd string only fretted, and sliding it around up the neck. You don't have to do it that fast. Listen what you can do with bass runs as well. Also note that all of intro part has 2nd and 3rd string fretted, except 2 brief hammers on 3rd. The rest is just notes added over chord. For you audiophiles I just banged this into cheap CDR right after I wrote. Not meant to be examples of tone, pickin or anything else other than message of song still filled with the emotion that wrote it!

[JBaer]

This thread has been teaching this old dog some new chords - Thanks all.
I can't think of individual tips for chords, but here's a song with some neat sounding chords.
One of the first rock songs that I ever learned.
Emerson, Lake & Palmer's From the Beginning.
Generally an Am to G song. If you've never heard it, you need to try to look it up somewhere to hear the rhythm/groove.

Start with chords Am9 = X07500 to Em11 = X05030 a couple of times. Then

Hit with low E string open, bend it twice at the 2nd fret, then open A string once, then:
Am9 = X07500
Em11 = X05030
C = X3201X - walk down
Cmaj9 = X2001X
Fmaj9 = XX3210
G = XX5433
Dm7 = XX0565 hammer on/pull off high E string 5 to 6 to 5
Chorus is
Dm7 = XX0565
G = XX5433
Dm7 = XX0565
E7sus4(addF) = 023230
Jam on Am to G (or Am9 to Em11).

I got these chord's names from the internet, so the names are probably not right. I looked this song up at maybe chordie.com and saw variations but I never took the time to listen to ELP and figure out what's exactly right. The version that I learned above always sounded okay to me.
Thanks again - keep em coming
JBaer

[flatlander]

This is gettin cool. I'm learning chords to add to my arsenal. Thanks!

[flatlander]

Basic chord theory for biginners or people who never got around to learning.
Chords are named by referencing the major scale of the key that is the name of that chord. In other words for a C type chord you're referencing C major scale. (do-re-mi ect) for D chord you're referencing D Major scale.
do is I, re is II, mi is III fa is IV, so is V, la is VI, to is VII "and that brings us back to DOOOOO(sorry) This Do is octive. Keep going above octive and you end up with 9th 11'th 13th ect.
Chords are named by what notes out of that scale you are using or what you've done with them, (flatted, raised)
Major chord uses 1st, 3rd, 5th notes out of scale
Minor uses 1st, flatted 3rd(lower 1/2 step or 1 fret) and 5th.
Suspended short for suspended 4th. just add 4th note in scale. I guess it's called suspended because that's how it sounds. Wants to get back to 3.
Augmented is short for Augmented(raised) 5th In C knock G note up to G#
Dominent flats 7th note in scale. Often just notated as (x)7 a major 7th uses non flatted 7th and is notatated Maj 7
Diminished   flat 3, flat 5 and 6th. can be named by any note in chord and repeats itself every 3 frets up (or down)
The rest of names are pretty much just what note you added from scale to chord.
A  C6 just adds the 6th note (A) to chord.
9ths, 11ths, 13ths aren't always octive above root. A D9 could be thought of as a D2 sometimes but of course that terminoligy is never used. Well that's all times allows. Hope that's somewhat clear. Any ?'s ask. Or if someone with better knowledge wants to add
or correct (I don't think I said anything outright incorrect) please add comments.

[flatlander]

  I had another post ready about what chords were in a key and why but I lost it! Later.

[flatlander]

On post that got lost, there was a pretty long explantion of why certain chords made up chords used most of the time for certain key.
It also stated that basic deal was not hard and fast rules.
I'll redo it later, but I was going to throw out a question for any teachers or folks more deep into theory.
On premise that chords for Maj key go Maj min min Maj Maj Min and Minor Flat 5 why..........
Does II maj chord fit so well as used so often in southern Gospel and country songs as it goes to V?
Why Does Min V chord work like in simple D to Am to G progression?
And VII chord as major as in something like Know You Rider. G-F-C-G? Someone told me that some old songs like that used to use a G7 instead of F. The F was a modern thing.  So the F note being the 7th in G7 can be subbed by entire F chord? Thanks

[Danny]

  Matt I did practice today. At least more than the last 3 days. I started learning a new finger style and my very talented friend whom sold me my Martin OM-21 was over today and taught me some more about chord interaction.
     He played my 00-09 FM and really made it sing. I really do hope to get more time in playing.

[flatlander]

 my very talented friend whom sold me my Martin OM-21 was over today and taught me some more about chord interaction.
   

Care to share? Regurgitating it is a way to remember and understand better. Love to hear other input, especially about chord interaction.
I'm just a 1/2 axx player that wants to share what little I learned cause it took me so long to figure it out. Love to hear from others.

[Danny]

Care to share? Regurgitating it is a way to remember and understand better. Love to hear other input, especially about chord interaction.
I'm just a 1/2 axx player that wants to share what little I learned cause it took me so long to figure it out. Love to hear from others.

He's the one with the talent and ability to teach it, I am a grasshopper. When I can grasp it a little better and can put it down in the correct manner I'll write it down.
                One of the details that seems a bit strange to me (unless I heard it or remember it wrong) is that if you played an A minor while others were playing D it wouldn't be noticed.
                I know for sure that is true about C and A minor. So as you can see I'm a bit unsure of A minor and D being closely related.  It you are 1/2 I'm 1/32cnd.
                          But I am having fun and learning new things, SLOWLY. As someone on the forum says in their sig.
                 "More guitars than talent"  Something like that.
                                                                Danny

[tbman]

Here's what I did to help me learn songs and put fun back into playing my guitars.

I made a list of 6 songs I wanted to learn. I wrote the name of each song and its tuning on a "sticky" and stuck it to the bridge of the assigned guitar. Some songs are easier than others so if I get frustrated with a hard song, I just put the guitar down, grab a different guitar and grab the music that goes with the guitar and start practicing it. Now, I don't have that I HAVE TO FINISH THIS SONG feeling that I used to get. 'Cause, now I don't have to finish them. I can work on them at my leisure, finish the easier ones and replace them with another song of the approximately same difficulty. I also keep one or two guitars in standard tuning for those moments when I just want to rip off a little bluesy stuff when I'm half asleep and don't feel like concentrating. A little organization goes a long way.

[flatlander]

Well I'm 1/2 awake after 5 hrs each way yesterday to kill devils hills and gettin home at 3:00 a.m.  While I wait for the coffee to take afftect..........
It's good to know that open E, open A, and open D are really the same chord form, in a way. You're just moving the whole chord over a string. Since the B, 2nd string, has a different interval from 3rd string than all the other strings have to each other, you just have to compensate when when moving chord over a string. Anyone who plays mandolin knows that the interval is the same between all strings. Once you learn a chord form, you can just move it over  a string with same shape and have same type of chord a 4th or 5th away depending which way you're going. On guitar when the 2nd string is involved if you go from E to A you must raise the finger moving to 2nd string up a fret because 2nd string is tuned lower. When going from A to D again the finger moving from 3rd to 2nd string must move up a fret to compensate giving D shape.
  So the fetted notes on any of these triads always have the same interval. Lowest(pitchwise) fretted note is 5th. middle fretted note is 1st and highest fretted note is 3rd. If you understand that well, then you realize that when you learn one new chord form, you are really learning 3 providing fingering works.
Example" to go from open chord E to E sus (4th) you just raise highest(again tone wise) note one fret, changing it from 3rd to 4th in chord context. The same applies to open A and open D.      So on open E your raising the 3rd string 1 fret. on open A you raise the 2nd string 1 fret and D  raise the 1st string one fret . It took my a little while to realize that. Hope it saves someone some time.

[flatlander]

WHAT CHORDS ARE IN A KEY AND WHY

Gonna redo this that I inadvertly deleted  a couple weeks ago.

When in a certain key what chords are likely to work? First know that these are not hard and fast rules, but generally speaking.
Lets take key of C for simplicity. C has no sharps or flats so the NOTES that make up C major are c-d-e-f-g-a-b then repeat.
On keyboards thats white keys only. The standard triad chords that fit a key uses only the notes that are in that key. (talking triads, not dominent, or any kind of dim or altered ect)
You start with the c note for first chord. Take the 1st, 3rd, and 5th notes (every other note in the c maj scale) and you end up with C E G which is a C Chord.
Move up to the next note in scale, D and do the same thing. 1st, 3rd, 5th notes starting with D, using only the notes from C scale.You end up with DFA. If you refernce back to how chords are named a couple of post back, you see that is a Dm chord.
Up again to starting with E and taking  every other note that's in the C Major scale. 1-3-5 and you have Em
Starting with F you get F major
Starting with G you get G major
Starting with A you get Am
Starting with B you get B b3b5 (B with flatted 3rd and flatted 5th) That can sound scarey but if you go back to how chords are named it should make sense.
In summary all you are doing is using the ONLY THE NOTES THAT ARE IN THE SCALE YOU ARE PLAYING IN to make basic triad.
Start with each note from that scale and take every other note above it, (1-3-5) to make chord!
No matter what MAJOR key you are playing in the sequence will always be Maj min min Maj Maj Min and (b3 b5)
Again this is MOST of the time and generally speaking.  Many are familier for example of using the II chord as a major in like a country or southern gospel song. Hope somebody learns something. As always if I gaffed something pounding this out quickly, please correct me. I don't think so.

Found this link also which explains pretty much the same way but maybe a thing or 2 to add.
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/chords/what_chords_are_in_what_key_and_why.html

[flatlander]

Doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in this still. I searched around last night and found a great place if this is what your into. Bang,bang,bang go the post and responses about theory. progressions, techniques and much more.
I'm beside myself with excitement.
If you want to know the site, let me know. More for actually playing,recording, gigging than discussion about guitars themselves.

[strawintogold]

I'm interested, it's just SOOOOOOO much further along than I am,lol. So I'd like it to be around when I can comprehend it.

holly