Another Guitar Build--Honduran Rosewood / Lutz Spruce 000-13 fretter

[greggg]

Hello All,

This will be my first guitar POST-SOMOGYI training (I'm building 2 at a time) so I'm very excited and have high expectations for this instrument...this is going to be just plain fun for me!!! This guitar will be Honduran Rosewood / Lutz Spruce 000-13 fretter with a 25.4" scale length. By the way this rosewood has an amazing tap-tone, rings like brazilian without a doubt, certainly is providing an opportunity for a great sounding instrument. Honduran Rosewood is considered a great tonewood with little character aesthetically, but I think this wood is beautiful in it's own right, what do you guys think about it's looks? Anyway, here are a few shots to get the build started, one of the back and side wood and then the sides bent and glued to the neck and tail blocks.







Cheers Everyone!
Greg

[inspector13]

I'm looking forward to another interesting build. Thanks Greg

[greggg]

Hi Inspector13.....I'm excited about this one too, it's going to be great fun!

Cheers,
Greg

[jimmyd]

Nice project. I'm interested to see how the honduran/lutz turns out for you using the Somogi methods. his web site is very informative.  I'm just about to start building my third, a shallow body dread with Sitka/Granadillo.  A new drum sander in my shop adds a lot of freedom in wood selection.  Can you tell me the specifics on baking your soundboards? I've read Brian Burns posts and read a bit about Collings and Taylors efforts there. I'm bakingl three  sitka tops I've just acquired so any helpfull hints will be greatly appreciated. BTW, those look like some nice home made cam clamps you are using. Seems you can never have enough of those.

[greggg]

Hi JimmyD,

Well, I bake my tops at 180-200 degrees (I've done both), I think I prefer 200, just make sure you stay close to 200 as I've heard that too much over 200 can do funny things to the cellular structure(then again I've heard about benefits of cooking higher than 200 as well, so who knows). I usually cook them for 2 hours then turn the oven off and let them gradually cool for 3-4 jours in the closed/off oven...seems to work for me. I do this routine 3 times, waiting at least a day in between treatments for the wood to settle a bit, although I've never noticed much change in the behavior of the wood from the baking, although my ears pick up a better tap-tone after the process. You'll notice that I put the pieces in a holding form when baking, this is really just for ease of handling the wood.....if the wood is properly seasoned it really doesn't move much from the baking process. You may notice a bit of sap coming to the surface, don't fret, this will sand right off and is part of the pitch setting process. I hope this is helpful, good luck on your build!!

Yeah, I could use about another 20 of those cam clamps they are so useful.

Cheers,
Greg

[saffron_boots]

This is going to be a really stupid question... Why are you baking the tops? Were they warped or something?

[greggg]

O.K., I'm going to do my best here, don't quote me ! The theory behind baking tops is that they curb, or reduce the tendency of a top to expand and contract under extreme humidity situations by setting the pitch or resins in the top, therefore helping prevent potential cracking or splitting of tops exposed to longterm changes in humidity...they don't move as much! Some also believe that there is a cellular/structural change which is similar to the natural aging process of drying and crystallizing resins within the top. That's my story and I'm sticking to it...Really though, I believe it is a valuable step in the build and I think I can hear a positive difference in the tone after the process. There are plenty of builders who believe it is not necessary, so take that into consideration as well.

Cheers,
Greg

[jimmyd]

Good answer Greg. I might add that collings and taylor won't make specific claims about improved tone but do make claims about stability. When you heat the wood to close to zero humidity it shrinks a lot. They don't expand back to their original size when exposed to ambient humidity. That makes them less likely to crack from temperature and humidity extremes.

[greggg]

JimmyD,

Yeah, I've read about what Collings and Taylor say about it as well...Somehow I don't think they have done this blindly! I've done some tests myself on the effects of the process, the tops do shrink and they do not come back to the original size, they also don't shrink evenly throughout the pieces, so a perfectly straight edge will no longer be a straight edge when removed from the oven.

Greg

[fingerstylebanjo]

Do you ever bake the back and sides?
Is there any reason why you would or would not?
Do the same theories apply to the back and sides - as far as stability, tone improvement??

Thanks,
Larry

[greggg]

The hardwoods behave differently than the softwoods(spruce) so baking them does not offer the same benefits. I do bake the spruce braces though, many seem to skip this step but it seems reasonable to me to cook them as well.


Cheers,
Greg

[saffron_boots]

What are you guys trying to be, sous-chefs or luthiers? Ha ha!

[greggg]

Hi Saffron Boots...I'm glad it's not any more complicated than putting them in the oven, trust me, ask my kids about dinner when I cook it, I'm not the chef my wife is.

By the way I hear your guitars sound great!!

Greg

[saffron_boots]

Yeah, they turned out pretty good. Denis still liked my Cedar/Walnut SSC the best. Probably because it was played in more. I still haven't done a final setup on the the 00 or the Classical because I was waiting for them to settle over their first winter. But, they were played a lot and have the battlescars to prove it.

I need to get something likes Denis' ZOOM H4 recorder and lay down some decent tracks, since the WebCam's mic doesn't quite catch the complexity of the guitars' tones.

[greggg]

I'd love to hear them some day, hopefully you will be able to record some pieces down the road a bit...I'll be looking for them.

Greg

[saffron_boots]

Greg, if you click on the links in my signature, they'll take you to the current recordings. LiveVideo has better sound...

[greggg]

Warren....I'll check those out this weekend.

Greg

[Denis]

Warren's guitar are professional looking and sounding.  Not to mention he used some beautiful woods.  The Braz on the 00 and walnut on the 000 are both nice and rich.  But the ziricote, wow, that is something to behold.  Gorgeous wood.  He's definitely on to something and is a very talented builder and player.  The classical had that great tone on the treble strings and some decent bass and volume that will develop even more over the course of time.  I liked his 00 very much as well.  A lovely fingerstyle guitar with a bearclaw Englemann top...crazy man!!!

I do like that walnut/cedar though.  Like he says, it's played in more but it's very clear but warm and for fingerstyle, it's really got a sweet sound. 

Warren, maybe we could do some comparison recordings.  I could bring my camera and the Zoom and record everything a couple of times?

[saffron_boots]

Warren, maybe we could do some comparison recordings.  I could bring my camera and the Zoom and record everything a couple of times?

That's certainly doable.

[greggg]

Sounds like fun guys, I want to join in, but Canada is a long way from Georgia, guess I'll have to be satisfied with video links.

I'm sure Warren's guitars are splendid with training from de Jonge, I look forward to hearing them, wish it was in person!

Greg