condensor mic

[Crunchy Wacko]

Well, I received a nice bonus on Friday (actually, overtime pay that was long overdue) and after the quick try with the el-cheapo mic from Wal-Mart, didn't want to wait any longer. :GRN>
Uh, not sure I'd do that. It may be considered torture in some countries. :TON>

Sounds like a great purchase and very close to what I will be getting.  If you can just record some chords.  ..E  A  D G C ...etc..just so we can here what the setup sounds like.

Cheers.

[Gemnoc]

I'll try to do that tomorrow night. I need to get that adapter so I can fasten the mic to the stand.

[Denis]

Well I went ahead and made the purchase this afternoon.

- M-Audio FastTrack Pro
- Audio-Technica AT2020 condenser mic
- cable
- microphone stand with boom

The MobilePre was not in stock at the 2 stores I visited. My other option was the FastTrack USB, which had no phantom power. Then it was either the Edirol UA25 or the FastTrack Pro, in the same price bracket (sensibly cheaper than the MSRP on M-Audio's website).

As for the AT2020, I know a couple of forumites have said they possess one, and I didn't remember them being unhappy with their mic.

I wanted to install all of this and do some test recording tonight, but I just realized the thread on the mic stand mount is smaller than on the stand. There should have been a thread adapter supplied with the mic according to the doc but it's not there. Damn.

I've got that AT2020 and for the price, it's awesome.  Very clean and very good reproduction.

[Gemnoc]

Frustrating evening. Today I called 3 music stores and the mic stand thread adapter is not something you can buy separately. It comes with the mic. I have to get the mic back to the store to have the package replaced.

Then my computer went FUBAR as soon as I installed the driver for the Fast Track Pro. Major conflict with the internal sound card (inboard). Multiple hard resets. Then I read in a very brief ReadMe file that Windows XP SP2 is required (was still at SP1). Doh! So I spent my evening cleaning up the mess, then upgrading my PC and while at it doing more restarts than I can remember. Sometimes I miss my old Mac (but not that much).

Now everything works but as soon as I power on the M-Audio, the internal soundcard gets disabled.

I have to say that I'm not impressed by the docs supplied with the USB audio interface. The user's guide gives short descriptions of features without explaining what they are. I'll have to figure it out by myself.

So no recording tonight Crunchy, sorry. :UND>

[Crunchy Wacko]

Frustrating evening. Today I called 3 music stores and the mic stand thread adapter is not something you can buy separately. It comes with the mic. I have to get the mic back to the store to have the package replaced.

Then my computer went FUBAR as soon as I installed the driver for the Fast Track Pro. Major conflict with the internal sound card (inboard). Multiple hard resets. Then I read in a very brief ReadMe file that Windows XP SP2 is required (was still at SP1). Doh! So I spent my evening cleaning up the mess, then upgrading my PC and while at it doing more restarts than I can remember. Sometimes I miss my old Mac (but not that much).

Now everything works but as soon as I power on the M-Audio, the internal soundcard gets disabled.

I have to say that I'm not impressed by the docs supplied with the USB audio interface. The user's guide gives short descriptions of features without explaining what they are. I'll have to figure it out by myself.

So no recording tonight Crunchy, sorry. :UND>

I feel your pain  Guinea pig...ahhh..Gemnoc I mean.  I also run SP1..and don't want to upgrade to SP2. Also not liking idea of using USB.

Keep working at it..good luck.

[Steve]

Well my little WalMart mic and Creative soundcard works good for me and my practice runs.

If I was going to upgrade, I would go with a Firewire interface like on the M-Audio 410 uses and then add that MXL 990/993 package to it.  No USB for me.  Firewire PCI cards are cheap, dump the USB.

IEEE 1394 Firewire is about 30 times faster then USB.  That's why you hear about latency problems with USB interfaces.

Steve  :GRN>

[attachment no longer available]

[Crunchy Wacko]

Seriously think I might go with the M-audio solo..with Firewire and the AT2020 mic.  Going to GEMNOC to report back though.

[Gemnoc]

Well I've managed to get everything working. Since I won't be able to go back to the store till Thursday night, I had the shop (I work for a metal manufacturer) make a rudimentary fitting so that I could install my microphone to the stand. It's ugly but hey it works. :WNK>



Now for the tests. One thing that surprises me is I need to crank the input gain level knob almost to the max to hear something. But then I can hear the hum from the computer 3 to 4 feet from the mic. So I turn it down slightly but you still can hear the computer. I may need to do something about that in the future. Make an isolating box? Since I'm a tenant I don't think the owner would be happy if I cut a hole in the wall to put the PC in the other room, like I've read a user on another forum did. ^_^

Anyway Crunchy, here's a basic sound file with strummed chords. The guitar was about 12 inches from the mic. No processing other than wav to mp3 (VBR 192kbps) conversion.

Sound sample

I'm glad I didn't spend $250+ on the mike, I think this one is gonna do the job nicely.

I'll need to buy the book drathbun talked about, or some equivalent. A coworker told me he has an instructional DVD on home recording he'll bring me.

[Gemnoc]

One thing is very clear when I listen to my first recordings. I'm a sloppy player, with rythm deficiencies (even with metronome to guide me I'm slightly off with my rythm) and poor volume control. :EM>

[Crunchy Wacko]

Hey Gemnoc

WOW!  The quality is much better than I thought it was going to be. Sounds a bit thin on the low end but not sure what kind of LARRI you are playing. Overall it sounds very clear and I can't hear the computer hum. That is definately something I will have to watch out for.

Would love to hear some picking sounds. If you don't want to post them here feel free to message me and I will send you my email.

Cheers..chris

[Gemnoc]

The Larry I play is in my signature. :WNK>

About the sample sounding thin, Little Brother in his video tutorial says that the nearer you are from the mic, the more bass you'll hear. Maybe it would sound different at 6 inches. Or possibly the rendition is not 100% perfect, because my LV's got plenty of bass even though it's no dread. Position of the mic, setup, hardware, it could be a lot of things I guess.

As for picking, I do some simple stuff. I made a recording of Tears in Heaven and it was awful. I'll try again tomorrow. It's odd because I get nervous when the record button is on. Go figure.

[ronmac]

Congratulations on getting your first sounds! It all seems daunting at first, but with  little work it will become a lot easier.

Learning to capture the sounds is as much of a challenge as learning to play the instrument.

Mic placement can be very critical to getting a good quality sound, especially in a home environment where the room you are recording in isn't treated to provide proper isolation and sound control. Experiment with a variety of placements and you will find one that works best in your situation.

[Crunchy Wacko]

I am sure over the next few days/weeks you'll be experimenting with mic placement and SW parms.  I look forward to hearing the final result.  So other than the SP2 upgrade..was there anything tricky about getting it all setup?

[drathbun]

Gemnoc:

I'm wondering if your gain problem with the AT2020 comes from having the mic facing the wrong way while recording? The AT2020 has a cardioid pickup pattern. If you get the mic back to front, you'll have serious attenuation of the signal. Plus it will pick up whatever sound is being produced in the opposite direction (the computer fan perhaps?). I know this happens, because I've done it myself with my Apex 435.

[Gemnoc]

I made sure to place the back opposite to the guitar. It's written on the mic (good thing). But due to the stand height and the mic bracket design, I was forced to leave the mic at a 45 degree angle (as in the posted picture). Would that cause attenuation of the signal?

I just made a google search and found this:

The advantage to using a microphone with a cardioid pickup pattern lies in the ability to isolate sounds. You can point the mic at one instrument while you're pointing it away from another instrument. The disadvantage to a cardioid pickup pattern is that it will typically only give you a full sound from a close proximity to the sound source. Once you're a foot or two away from the sound source a cardioid pickup pattern produces a very thin-sounding rendition of the sound you're miking.

I'll try playing closer and sitting on a stool instead of my computer chair. The mic should be straighter...

[Gemnoc]

Hello Crunchy Wacko,

I made some more tests tonight. The distance to the mic definitely changes the sound. Compare the previous strummed chords to this one:

Sample #2

This time I was maybe 3 to 5 inches from the mic instead of more than 12".

I still need the input gain level to be at 9/10 to get reasonnable volume. In my sound editing software, the wavelength peak is at -9 to -15dB for moderate to loud strumming. When not playing, it's at -45/-55dB. Is that normal?

I have now reached the storage limit from my ISP. Any suggestions for free file hosting? Something like ImageShack but for sound files would be great.

[Gemnoc]

IEEE 1394 Firewire is about 30 times faster then USB.  That's why you hear about latency problems with USB interfaces.

Compared to USB 1.1, yes. Not with USB 2.0.

Bandwidth

FireWire (IEE 1394) --- up to 400 Mbps
USB 2.0 --- up to 480 Mbps

Due to differences in architecture (don't ask me!), FireWire is faster in sustained throughput than USB 2.0. But not 30 times faster. :WNK>

[Gemnoc]

Thanks for the comments guys. I have truly hijacked Crunchy Wacko's thread. :rolleyes:

[Crunchy Wacko]

Thanks for the comments guys. I have truly hijacked Crunchy Wacko's thread. :rolleyes:

Not at all. I think we are both gettng tons out of this chat. You just have a bigger wallet than me at the moment.
Hopefully there were others that were as confused about home recording as us and are much more enlightened thanks to the many
great friends on this forum.

[Gemnoc]

So other than the SP2 upgrade..was there anything tricky about getting it all setup?

Forgot to answer that. After SP2 was installed, no problem whatsoever. Just plug and play.