More NAMM News

guitarcrazy · January 20, 2006, 01:28:48 AM

Another revelation at NAMM is the introduction of a small run of Sapele guitars! Jean bought a small supply of high grade Sapele and is offering a limited number of D-03's with Sapele and Spruce tops, and an even smaller number of OM-03's with Sapele and Spruce. Right now they say that the Sapele won't be a regular addition to the product line, but with the price of genuine south American mahogany getting higher every day my guess is that they will eventually have to find an affordable, sustainable wood to replace it. Sapele may be the wood to use. Martin, Taylor, and other big name builders have all switched to Sapele, so it wouldn't be unusual. I'll also post some pics of the Sapele -03's on Saturday if I can. J

Redeemed · January 20, 2006, 01:35:17 AM

That's interesting news.. Thanks Jason.

Better stock up on the genuine mahogany while you still can! (I've got my baby in check)

-dan

jwsamuel · January 20, 2006, 11:37:37 AM

Quote from: guitarcrazy on January 20, 2006, 01:28:48 AM
Martin, Taylor, and other big name builders have all switched to Sapele, so it wouldn't be unusual. I'll also post some pics of the Sapele -03's on Saturday if I can. J

Well, I just hope that Larrivee tells us when they are using sapele and other woods instead of using phrases like "mahogany or sapele" or "select hardwoods" as Martin does. Sapele and other woods are fine by me...I just want to know what I am getting.

Jim

TrinityGuitars · January 20, 2006, 11:42:48 AM

This was bound to happen, Mahogany will go the way of Brazilian Rosewood. 15 years from now you will kick yourself for selling or not buying a South American Mahogany guitar. The price of the wood has started an up-word trend over the last 12 to 15 months. Neck stock for my classical guitars has gone from $45 to over $90. That is a blank that I get two necks from.
I am sure that the new Sapele guitars will be very nice. I just hope that Larrivee will continue to have the South American Mahogany available for some time. Martin has already started shipping there standard series guitars ( d18, d28 HD28 etc.) with Spanish Cedar necks. A very nice wood and my preferred wood for classical necks.
Just think of a hippie in the 60'S playing his or her Brazilian roeswood guitar at an sit in for and environmental cause. Not knowing that the wood of the guitar was to become and endangered species in a few short years. How many of you were one of these people?

Peter Cree · January 20, 2006, 12:10:51 PM

I still am. The idea of hoarding or desiring an endangered species is digusting to me. I don't care about how much money it'll make you or what you think it sounds like. Walnut, maple, cherry, Ash, birch all make incredible guitars.

As we watch storms hit at cat 3 or 4 or 5 its due to climate warming. Period. Fact. Gee guess the cutting of rainforrests for a 19th century mindset wasn't worth it ........................

We don't need souvenirs of destruction. and we pay the price in so many other ways. New Orleans for one.

you asked.

Tycho · January 20, 2006, 12:15:14 PM

All the more reason why we shouldn't discourage manufacturers who fool around with alternative materials, like Reverend, or Martin with HPL.

jimmyd · January 20, 2006, 12:18:21 PM

Quote from: TrinityGuitars on January 20, 2006, 11:42:48 AM
This was bound to happen, Mahogany will go the way of Brazilian Rosewood. 15 years from now you will kick yourself for selling or not buying a South American Mahogany guitar. The price of the wood has started an up-word trend over the last 12 to 15 months. Neck stock for my classical guitars has gone from $45 to over $90. That is a blank that I get two necks from.
I am sure that the new Sapele guitars will be very nice. I just hope that Larrivee will continue to have the South American Mahogany available for some time. Martin has already started shipping there standard series guitars ( d18, d28 HD28 etc.) with Spanish Cedar necks. A very nice wood and my preferred wood for classical necks.
Just think of a hippie in the 60'S playing his or her Brazilian roeswood guitar at an sit in for and environmental cause. Not knowing that the wood of the guitar was to become and endangered species in a few short years. How many of you were one of these people?

Thanks for the insight on this trend. As the price of Mahogany spirals up people are probably going to get pushed off of following tradition and accepting different tone woods in quality instruments. I've read that a long time ago Martin used only Spanish Cedar for necks but switched to Mahogany when it became scarce. I'd guess that the average player back then was not as obsessed with details as us modern guitar geeks who constantly comb the internet for the latest words of wisdom. My Mahogany dread is my favorite instrument and the fact that it is built from honduran only makes me more inclined to not part with it as it's value goes up. The sapele guitars I've played have been very nice. I'd be suprised if I could hear any difference between a Sapele and a Mahogony instrument with identical build bracing and top wood. I am glad that Sitka is abundant. It sure makes excellent sound boards.

Peter Cree · January 20, 2006, 12:35:37 PM

You sure its honduran? That resource is long gone with some exceptions of private wood dealers.

poki · January 20, 2006, 01:15:22 PM

Sapele sample
i've seen some guitars made with sapele which looked very nice. don't know nothing about tonal qualities of the wood though.

guitaradoptions · January 20, 2006, 02:10:15 PM

Thats QUILTED Sapele, and not what you should expect on the new 03's.

Redeemed · January 20, 2006, 02:11:35 PM

Quote from: guitaradoptions on January 20, 2006, 02:10:15 PM
Thats QUILTED Sapele, and not what you should expect on the new 03's.

Darn... that'd be nice though.

-dan

Peter Cree · January 20, 2006, 02:23:52 PM

I actually think there's some advantage to Sapele. With grades of mahogany getting worse the quality of the Sapele is quite good. Sound is very difficult to distinguish from "other" types of mahogany.

jeremy3220 · January 20, 2006, 02:29:11 PM

So is Sapele just as good as mohogany? Is there a difference in tone versus a difference in quality? I don't think it matters if it's not genuine mohogany, if it's equal in quality. But I have no expeirence with it.

jimmyd · January 20, 2006, 03:24:57 PM

Quote from: Peter Cree on January 20, 2006, 12:35:37 PM
You sure its honduran? That resource is long gone with some exceptions of private wood dealers.

I'm pretty sure it's Honduran. I assume that tone wood suppliers and builders who sell honduras mahogany are talking about the specie, swietenia macrophylla, which I think is mostly harvested in Brazil. I asked about the source of their mahogany when I toured H&D a couple of years ago which was about the time that I bought the guitar. Please take that rememberance with a grain of salt. They still list their mahogany necks as honduran. I'll ask them about it the next time I stop in for a visit. Personally I wouldn't care if the back and sides came from a tree in Cleveland except that it may effect it's value in years to come.

unclrob · January 20, 2006, 03:25:30 PM

Having played both woods side by side both guitars being Larrivee's,a D02 sepella and a D03 mahogany,I never notice enough of a difference to matter.

parsky1 · January 20, 2006, 03:46:05 PM

I wish countries could manage other exotic woods as well as they have East Indian rosewood.

i like guitars · January 20, 2006, 10:21:57 PM

Quote from: jeremy3220 on January 20, 2006, 02:29:11 PM
So is Sapele just as good as mohogany? Is there a difference in tone versus a difference in quality? I don't think it matters if it's not genuine mohogany, if it's equal in quality. But I have no expeirence with it.

Sapele is a pretty facsinating sounding tonewood. It has a very BRIGHT and poppy sound to it, which makes it a very resonant sounding wood. It is also incredibly loud, which will sound great on any of the body shapes Larrivee offers, especially the good ol' Dread. I owned a Taylor 210 which had a sitka top and sapele back/sides and I absolutely loved the tone of it.

Hope that helps!

cldplytkmn · January 20, 2006, 10:34:50 PM

i don't see sapele as an inferior tonewood... i'm probably in the majority on that though... i do think that it wasn't the best move by Martin to start saying "mahogany or sapele", but i don't know another solution to that situation (at this point, i'd start betting on getting sapele if its newer). Webber does nice sapele guitars... really cool straight grain look.

mazareth · January 21, 2006, 09:17:47 AM

Last year I got to play a Martin CEO V. Not sure if it's the sapele or the 12 fret neck, but that guitar sounded great. Highgrade sapele has a very nice shimmery striping 3D effect.

guitarcrazy · January 21, 2006, 09:18:41 PM

Hello everyone, it has been a very exhausting day. I was like a "kid in a candy shop". Of course, I am so over-stimulated by the cacophany of sounds and sights that I am glad today is over. The new Larrivee guitars are awesome. I have attached a couple of pics of the Larrivee booth, the new fingerstyle guitar, the Sapele D-03's, and some Morgan and Northwood guitars. Larrivee is a very close-knit, family operation that I am very glad to be a part of. Today I got to speak to Jean, Matthew, Jean Jr, Ricky Thompson, Corey Thompson, and Ben Thompson of Larrivee, and David Iannone of Morgan and John McQuarrie of Northwood. Morgan and Northwood had some incredible wood on their display guitars, including figured Bubinga and quilted Sapele at Morgan, and Ziricote and Koa at Northwood. I apologize in advance for the pictures, it was hard to get good shots in the lighting there in the arena. I can't wait for the new guitars to ship, they are all excellent. The Sapele is very similar to mahogany, prettier than most standard 03 Series mahogany (at least on the show guitars), and the new Baggs electronics are awesome (I already carried Baggs, so I am happy with the switch!). Now, off to Disney for the rest of the trip with the family (pray for me, two kids, 5 theme parks in 5 days, I hope I survive!). Jason