Satin to Gloss

[Rescon]

Does anyone know if it's even remotely possible, for under a million dollars, to put a gloss finish on a existing satin finish guitar? I just can't stand the constant hiss thats made with any contact with the soundboard or body? Do you just get used to it? I really don't want to sell this Koa Parlor :<>
Nick

[Randy_R]

Does anyone know if it's even remotely possible, for under a million dollars, to put a gloss finish on a existing satin finish guitar? I just can't stand the constant hiss thats made with any contact with the soundboard or body? Do you just get used to it? I really don't want to sell this Koa Parlor :<>
Nick

Have you seen the notes about "orsinoizing"? which is a process used by forum members using Macguires polish ?

I haven't done it, but numerous forum members have.

[naboz]

Somebody give Rescon the link to "Orsino-izing"!
This will give you a semi-gloss polish that eliminates the swoosh--I even did the pickguard, with no signs of harm.  AND, no swoosh.  And it looks great!

[jwieties]

http://www.tomyoungguitar.com/L-01Polish.html

[Peter Cree]

I've done it to all my satin guitars.  That swoosh is awful especially when recording.  Easy to do and looks great.

[Caleb]

bring on the swoosh!!!!!!!!!!!!

the only part that sucks is that when you play the guitar for many years, the swoosh naturally gets rubbed off anyway. i do think that orsino-izing looks pretty cool though. speaking of that guy, orsino, what ever happned to him? i dont recall seeing him here for a while? or maybe ive just not been paying attn.

[ronmac]

Orsino is currently hanging out at the APM and Celtic Guitar Talk Forums.

[New Jersey Mike]

I recently bought a D-03 12 string from Ebay. It was advertised as having a satin finish which had become slightly glossy in spots with use. It's a 1997. When I got it, it was obvious that someone had glossed it. And it actually looks like they did a pretty good job. Its nice and even over entire guitar. At first, I was a little aggravated given that it was not the "traditional" D-03 satin, as advertised. But from listening to you guys (who have a lot more experience than I do), it sounds like it's really preferred. (I have a D-03 6 string with the satin and never noticed any hissing.) Should I consider that I got a bargain? Anything I should look for to indicate good gloss job vs. a bad one?

[heartwood]

This thread is timely and may have saved me some real grief.  Would someone clear this up for me. I am confused...more than normally!  I just read Tom Young's instructions as posted above. They seem to be different than other instructions that I remembered reading a few months ago.

Over the weekend I purchased some 0000 steel wool and some Meguiar's Scratch X.  I had thought this was all that was necessary to get the semi-gloss finish. Do I need to get Meguire's #1 and #2 and some wax?

I am sorry to bring this up again, but the swoosh is too loud for recording and I want to record my new/used D-03R.  Besides, this, Tom's guitars look great to me.

Michael

[kdonovan]

Heartwood,
   Check out this thread, It might help explain the process. :mellow:

http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=5012.0

kdonovan

[heartwood]

Heartwood,
Check out this thread, It might help explain the process. :mellow:

http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=5012.0

kdonovan

kdonovan,

Thanks for pointing me to this thread.  I reread Peter Cree's post and this seems to be the information I had remembered.  So, I seem to be okay with only the steel wool and Scratch X.  Scratch X IS Meguiars "step 1" ... and step 2 is not necessary?  I am not usually this dense but there is so much apparently conflicting information that I am not certain as to the definitive word on this...although it looks like Peter is the man!  The examples on his web site are extraordinary!

Michael

[whiskeyjack]

I am not usually this dense but. . .

It's not density at all.  It's caution.  And rightly so.

A Meguire's gloss job can indeed be screwed up if you get too zealous and rub through the finish. 

I've glossed both a Martin 000-15S and the back and sides of a 000C-16RGT.  'Turned out lovely.   Just be careful and back off  rubbing when areas start to shine up. 

Some observations from my experience for what it's worth:

I did not notice a tonal difference in the 000C-16RGTE (maybe made the guitar sound a little brighter).  The 000-15S gloss job DID alter the tone noticably.  It got brighter and a little louder with more sustain. I was talking to a luthier about this one day and he used the analogy of a clear, smooth banjo skin vs a frosted white one: the frosted white one (satin finish) is more mellow with a little less volume.  The clear, smooth head has more bite and volume. 

I would not recommend usinge Meguire's Polish (the step 2 product), it tends to dampen the sound I think. 

Also, the gloss job will not look like factory gloss.  I found it will smudge more easily and requires a little more maintenance to keep shined up.  BUT, like others have said, the upside is you have considerably less friction noise against your chest, knee, arm and anything else that rubs against the guitar.

If I can get to love my 0M-03R when it gets here, I'm planning on glossing it.

[kdonovan]

Heartwood,
     Step 2 is the polish and this is what will give you the shine after the old finish has been taken down with the steel wool. Usually 3 to 4 coats or until you get the results you are looking for. I have polished several guitars and have never had one dampen the sound. I always thought they sounded and looked better. Good luck

kdonovan

[JohnM2001]

Heres some pics of how shiny mine got after this same polishing treatment.  FYI, I find that the backs and sides come out geat, but I've never been as happy with the final result on the spruce tops, I've done about 4 different 03 guitars.   I just can't get the top anywhere as shiny as the harder back & side woods, the tops have just remained an unsatisfying, uneven dull gloss by comparison.   So much so that I just left the top alone on this OM-03W, and just did the back and sides.  Does anyone else have this same problem polishing their top?







*

[ronmac]

I just can't get the top anywhere as shiny as the harder back & side woods, the tops have just remained an unsatisfying, uneven dull gloss by comparison.

Is it possible that the top has more/less finish applied, or is buffed differently, at the factory? Anyone have any insight on this?

[Peter Cree]

Matte finishes are not buffed at the factory.  In fact the reason they are used is to skip that entire procedure which is costly and time consuming.

Buffing doesn't affect tone.

There are no "coats".  It isn't finish.

There is a faq page that lists the steps to follow.  If you skip any steps or jump straight to the final polish you'll have problems.

If your top is uneven its due to skipping a step.

[JohnM2001]

Nope,I followed the directions to the letter, including all the steps, with steel wool on step #1.  My theory is that the top wood, being lighter colored, is harder to see the effect of the steel wool, to be sure you are buffing the same amount in all areas.  It seems way easier to get steel wool buffing uniformity on the darker back & side woods.  You do your best to buff the top evenly, but it's just harder to see, until you gloss it up and discover that the polish is uneven.  Another SWAG theory is that the top spruce wood, being much softer, is more just difficult to buff evenly with the steel wool, or maybe just takes the polish different than the harder B&S?  Like I said, just a SWAG.  But after 4-5 guitar top like this, I gave up on the tops being polished.

[tak2larri]

I'm teetering back and forth on whether or not to "gloss" my satin finish.  Basically I'm just really nervous about doing it... I don't want to mess anything up.  So I'm wondering, as I'm doing the steel wool step, how will I know when I've rubbed enough?  Will I see a gloss, or will that not come until I use the Scratch X and polish?  Thanks!

--Ross--

[dbirchett]

I'm teetering back and forth on whether or not to "gloss" my satin finish.  Basically I'm just really nervous about doing it... I don't want to mess anything up.  So I'm wondering, as I'm doing the steel wool step, how will I know when I've rubbed enough?  Will I see a gloss, or will that not come until I use the Scratch X and polish?  Thanks!

--Ross--

Ross,

You do not have to use the steel wool, although it will have more gloss if you do.

I did my guitars back in the unelightened days when we did the Meguiar's 3 step. (The third step has silicones in it so don't repeat my mistake). The first step requires some sort of abrasive whether it is steel wool or some sort of liquid abrasive to prepare the rough matte finish to be polished. Scratch-X will do that or Meguiar's Crystal Shine step one (the name may vary slightly from that) will work too but not as well.

Basically, if you put pressure on the steel wool, you are pushing too hard. You are only trying to take the peaks off the matte to get a smooth finish. Take your time or you will go right through the finish. Save the elbow grease for the Meguiar's Step 2. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

[Peter Cree]

Just to toss a monkey wrench into all this...........

There are many ways to do this.   Using the wool is only to mow down the particulate and make step 2 easier.

Now if you want to skip the entire first steps heres another way to go.  Turle wax rubbing compound.  yup.  Use the red to get the main work done.  It'll leave small "scratches" like the wool does. then use the white (fine) to get the scratches out and a good shine.  And thats all.

Then there's the wet-dry sandpaper method...............

For the tops you might try just the white.  That should even everything out without much chance of problems.

Another tip...........wrap the cloth (only use cotton tee shirt material) around a flat block of wood.  This sanding block will keep things flat  as fingertips might be inconsistent.  Get a tight wrap without having ends or sharp sides protruding.  Put the compound on the cloth.  You can get into the tough spaces easier like the bridge and the fretboard.

Teaching finishing over the net is not easy.  not easy in person either.