Question about stock tuners

[heartwood]

Hi Folks,

I have noticed that the tuners on my L-05MT are less than accurate. I sometimes have to turn them for quite a bit before they tighten the string. Also, the high "E" tends to drop in pitch. This is getting to be quite annoying as I change tunings enough onstage and it is time consuming.  Is this standard behavior for the factory tuners? I have only had the guitar for 2 and 1/2 months and they feel some what worn out.

Michael

[Crunchy Wacko]

Hey

I've noticed the same thing on my L03R.  I might have to turn a 1/4 before anything seems to happen and I always have to retune each night.

chris

[drathbun]

I think the stock tuners on Larrivees are Pings. They aren't premium tuners by any stretch. However, I had one tuner bind on me and asked Brian T. about it. He sent me a new tuner the very next day!

Sorry.. I just edited this post because I posted the wrong tuners from Gotoh. They are Gotoh 510s and are drop-in replacements. They are about $75 a set from Stewmac.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead/1/Gotoh_510_Guitar_Full-size_Guitar_Machines/Pictures.html#details

[Steve]

I have noticed that the tuners on my L-05MT are less than accurate. I sometimes have to turn them for quite a bit before they tighten the string.

This may be a case of not being familiar with higher ratio tuners.  I notice a big difference between a 14:1 ratio tuner and a 18:1 ratio like on new Larrivees. 

Larger ratios will take more turning of knob to adjust the tension of the string.  This is a good thing as it makes for more accurate tunings.  I like the tuners on my Larrivees compared to the tuners on my Martins, here again it's a ratio thing.

Steve  :GRN>

[TrinityGuitars]

Hi Folks,

I have noticed that the tuners on my L-05MT are less than accurate. I sometimes have to turn them for quite a bit before they tighten the string. Also, the high "E" tends to drop in pitch. This is getting to be quite annoying as I change tunings enough onstage and it is time consuming.  Is this standard behavior for the factory tuners? I have only had the guitar for 2 and 1/2 months and they feel some what worn out.

Michael

Michael. I find this from time to time on new Guitars not just Larrivee. The tuners are normaly not the issue but a string sticking in the nut. In a easy case a bit of lead from the tip of a pencile may provide some lub to fix the problem. When I get this I have the skills and tools to open up the nut slot a bit to free up the string. If you have a repair shop you can get to you may want to try that before replacing the tuners. I have found the Larrivee tuners to be very good in quality.
Good Luck.

[Ratishna]

Sometimes how you wrap the string around the post can affect tuning, but it would seem that a quarter turn with nothing happening is beyond that explanation.

E. Shoaf

[Caleb]

not to be unkind in any way to larrivee, but i think they could do a lot better in the area of tuning machines.

i just dont understand why anyone would go to the troulbe of choosing superior wood to build their instrument, use all the latest technology available to make the best guitar, etc. -- then skim on tuning machines?

i couldnt believe how bad the pings on my larrivee performed. a friend of mine actually got rid of his larrivee due to the pings. he knew he could have changed them for little money, but he said "for the money i paid, it should be able to stay in tune for more than one song!" i think he had a great point. just bums me out that he lost out on a great guitar due to something so simple as tuning machines...and that larrivee lost a player.

im sure larrivee has their reasons for using ping, passing on the savings to the consumer is probably number one on that list, but im sure it wouldnt cost that much more to use grovers, gotohs, or something of better quality. i know i would have rathered paid a few more dollars for the guitar than have to change my tuners (like i did).

a guitar that wont hold tune is like having a cadillac with flat tires.

[naboz]

Hopefully not implying anyone is a novice, but maybe the problem is in the wrap at the post; where the new string needs to get taut around the post before anything happens tuning-wise...?  Or as Trinity Jim said, also sticking at the nut.  And yes, the 18:1 tuners do take some twists to get results--but that allows for more accuracy also.

[Cowgirlie]

My custom Larrivee LS has stock tuners, and they have never given me a lick of problem, my sweet little guitar holds a tune all night and sometimes flies cross country without losing tuning. On one of my other guitars, when I once strung it with a whole wrap instead of a half wrap before threading the string through the post, it did tend to not resopond, due, I assumed, to the tension and stretch going on in the extra wrap. I no guitar technition, but it sure fixed the problem when I restrung.
My stock tuners on my favorite Larrivee seen solid and have no play...but I have never really paid much attention to them.   :rolleyes:

[jwsamuel]

I had an OM-03R and never had a problem with the stock tuners. I now have an L-03 and have not had a problem.

Are the problems that people are talking about something that were present when they got the guitars or did the problems develop over time?

Jim

[charliep]

I have 3 Larrivees. The tuning machines on the D and OM seem fine. I have had problems with one tuning machine on the L since the beginning. It won't stay tuned and it has never sounded just right. I have be re-stringing guitars for 40 plus years so I don't think the way I'm winding the string around the tuner post is a problem. A luthier friend of mine suggested that Grover Rotomatics might drop right in. Any thoughts or ideas on the Rotmatics??? I love the L-03R but the tuning problem does get a little annoying.
charliep

[Caleb]

not sure about grovers, but any gotoh will drop right in. fwiw, gotoh makes some really nice tuners for not much money. lots of folks seem to think only the 510s will do the trick, but the plain jane ones are nice as well.

my .02

[jmhyer]

Tuners on my D-09 are stock.  Like Jim pointed out, the only tuning problem I've ever had was with a string that was tending to bind at the nutslot.  With my stock tuners, I can frequently go for a week and not need any retuning (no kidding).  I know this because I usually check the tuning with my Intellitouch every time I sit down to play.

[drathbun]

The "plain Jane" Grotohs are very reasonable upgrade to the stock Pings IMHO. I'm planning on doing that IF I have any more difficulty with my Pings.

[Caleb]

The "plain Jane" Grotohs are very reasonable upgrade to the stock Pings IMHO. I'm planning on doing that IF I have any more difficulty with my Pings.

thats what i did to mine. scored mine off ebay for just over $30.

[heartwood]

Thanks for all the replies. It looks like there are experiences on both sides with more positive than negative.  This suggests to me the possiblity that just a few "less than perfect tuners" made it onto some instruments.  No manufacturing process is without flawed product.

No offense taken as to my ability to wrap a post properly.  This is good insight, but I have been stringing guitars successfully for a very long time.  And because of "acid hands",  I have strung more than most... with the exception of guitar techs. :WNK>  So, I don't think this is the problem.

Also, in my experience, a string binding at the nut will grab and release. You can hear it instantly in the pitch and sometimes even at the nut, when it is extreme.  In these cases, nothing happens and then all of a sudden the string releases. So, I don't think it is this either.  Although this a good suggestion and would have been accurate for some guitars I have owned.

This is a problem I noticed from the beggining and just seems to have gotten worse. I have a D-03R that responds normally.  So, it isn't unlikely or terrible that I may have gotten some sub-quality tuners...they aren't all bad!  I will write Larrivvee and see how they feel about the possibility of 2 bad tuners on one guitar.  Thanks again for all the suggestions and for sharing personal experinece. 

Michael

[dermot]

I replaced the Ping's on my new OM19 within a week.. they would not stay in tune no how, no way....

went to Grover Stay-Tites - noticeably lighter weight + olde timey look, as well as staying in tune!





worth it to me, but not a straight drop-in.. need conversion bushings

Ta,

d.

[Cowgirlie]

Heartwood, sound as though you may have had the misfortune to get some loosey goosey tuners. Since you have "acid hands" have you tried Elixir strings? They do tend to fight the acid well. My guitar technician does not like them, but I have used them for years and love them.

[drathbun]

I replaced the Ping's on my new OM19 within a week.. they would not stay in tune no how, no way....

went to Grover Stay-Tites - noticeably lighter weight + olde timey look, as well as staying in tune!

worth it to me, but not a straight drop-in.. need conversion bushings

Ta,

d.

And they look fabulous too! However, you can't go back in this conversion. Do the Sta-tites actually cover ALL of the holes left by the Ping screws?

[dermot]

Drathbun;

yuppers... all the holes are covered... they don't excatly line up, so a matchstick in the existing hole before drilling a new hole a tiny hair off the existing one was the answer we used

i never would go back to that set of Ping's.... i'm sure that Larrivee would have delt with them if i had flagged it, but i rather like the Stay-Tities, i know by feel how much to turn to get to a drop D accuratly, and back... could'nt find that zone with the Pings ;-)))

Guess if i ever sell it (not to likely really) it would have to go to someone who likes openback tuners!

I see you have a 68' Yammy red label 150.. way cool.. i have a 65' that was my first good guitar, still have it, still play it to this day.

Ta,

d.

Sounds like Ping's quality control is somewhat inconsinisant?