Satin versus gloss

[teh]

I've been thinking about this over the past few weeks. One of the features that first drew me to Larrivee back in 2004 was the satin finish that they use on their 03 series. Since that time, I've purchased a total of four Larrivee acoustic guitars, all with a satin finish. A few years ago, Martin began offering their D18/28 models with a satin finish and two years ago they announced the modestly priced all mahogany 17 series (D-17 and 000-17*). Within the past few weeks, they introduced the mahogany 0-17 with a satin finish. Gibson is now offering a satin finish with their Century Series while Taylor, Furch and other builders are also doing the same.

* In April, I played a 12 fret Martin 000-17 with a 24.9" scale for the first time. While it was a nice guitar, I passed on the Martin because I was unwilling to part with my 12 fret Larrivee 00-24 with a 24.75" scale that I ordered with a mahogany top. It also has moonwood spruce bracing which I believe is a hidden plus. This 00 has also been getting more than its fair share of playing time. Thanks to the Larrivee team.

[Silence Dogood]

I have long preferred a satin finish, though back in the day I liked the idea of the Martin D16GT (GT = gloss top while the rest was satin) -- it just seemed like the best of both worlds. 

Gloss is certainly prettier but I seriously dislike gloss on the back of a neck (one of the reasons I've never gotten along with Les Pauls).  And I also dislike the look of smudges and fingerprints all over a guitar (hence, no black guitars for me). Strange, I don't mind dings and dents, but I can't stand when the top of a guitar looks like a salt shaker at Denny's. 

A long time ago there used to be a fellow who posted here under the name orsino (or something like that).  He had come up with a detailed process for buffing out satin finishes and making them look sort of like an old violin varnish.  A very cool look.  I never did it but lots of folks here did.  Some would just buff out the satin finish on the headstock, which also looked very cool.  I'm sure a search could dig up some of the old threads. 

[StringPicker6]

Perfect analogy with the Denny's salt shaker!! 

I've shined up some Larrivee headstocks and buffed out the top of my forum VII a bit, all using meguire's auto scratch remover (my spelling is off). The nice part is that you can go slowly and stop when you like what you see, so you don't have to go full "glass" finish if you don't want.

[B0WIE]

I think satin is a brilliant way to offer a high quality guitar at a much lower price. It cuts out a lot of man hours. While some say it allows them to see more of the wood grain, I feel the opposite and the cloudy look definitely isn't my preference. But, sometimes the savings is too good to pass up and I'd rather have two satin guitars than one gloss.

Regarding glossing satin, I've been meaning to make an instructional video but just haven't had time. Here's the quick and dirty though; go to a well stocked auto parts store and get an assortment of 3M wet/dry papers starting at 1000 grit and found up to 3k, a flexible backing block, and Meguiars ScratchX. ScratchX is for plastics but it's the best commonly available buffing compound I've found for completing the final stage on a Larrivee satin finish. Better than actual scratch remover.

If you don't mind spending more and want the finest, easiest available, go to StewMac and get the Eagle Abrasives dry sanding papers with their backing pad, and find Menzerna Final Finish 3000 polishing compound online. I use those for restoring finishes and for hiding finish repairs.

Satin finishes never go to a perfect high gloss, and some have light refractors in the finish that always cloud it, but the older satin finishes can polish up decently. And, if you want less gloss, stop at around 2k paper and don't polish.

[StringPicker6]

Thanks for writing that out, Bowie.  Meguiars ScratchX Is the stuff I have used, and it's excellent.

 I've loved the effect on polishing up satin Larrivee headstocks, because it looks classy and really makes the inlaid logo shine, and will also bring out any subtle colorings in the ebony.

[William2]

I wonder if satin Finnishes are more prone to shine up depending on the finish material used. I had two Waterloo instruments for little over a year, and both developed a shine where you put your forearm on the lower bout. These Larrivee's have not shined up even a little in several years of ownership. I don't know what was used on the Waterloo's or the Larrivee's. I now own one gloss finish instrument and am getting used to it. But it doesn't fit in with the four Larrivee's looks wise.

[jpmist]

I'll offer what I used was "KIT Scratch Out" to start and then Novus #2 Fine Scratch Remover plus a lot of elbow grease.

It ended up ok, but on a sunburst satin finish it had the unfortunate tendency to bring out an orange cast in the sunburst that I didn't like. Seen in the pic below, the left side has been polished and the right is satin



I compounded my mistake by using Virtuoso polish which added an unnaturally greasy looking gloss I ended up really hating. If you try this, please be aware that components in the Virtuoso polish and cleaner bonds chemically to your finish (!!!) and will never reverse. So the pic below shows the glossy top which was a tad gaudy in my hands, compare that to the unpolished back and sides.



Sorry to be such a buzz-kill but there were a lot of unanticipated issues for me. I hope you've read this far because the last datapoint is the most important.

Guitars destined for satin get less finishing done. I noted on my sunburst dozens and dozens of 4 mm circular marks from the last step orbital sander under the satin finish that simply can't be polished out. On a unstained spruce top, these aren't seen, but on my sunburst finish there were quite a few.