A Question About Neck Angle

[William2]

I was watching a video today and the demonstrator commented on how the big three (Gibson, Martin, and Taylor) are now angling their necks back. He said you will see this and that the instruments now have higher bridge bones. He went on to say that this creates more volume from the instrument. Is this true? Speaking of necks, someone once told me to find the neck you like and stick with that maker. I'm pretty flexible about necks, but with the recent purchase of my Eastman E-20DL I am really enjoying that more rounded clubby feeling neck. It kind of reminds me of my old classical guitars. Are there some makers noted for a certain type of neck profile or do have different profiles for certain models?

[Queequeg]

What are "bridge bones"?
Are you talking about saddles?

[William2]

Saddle LOL.

[Queequeg]

Saddle LOL.

Sorry, colloquialism I'm not acquainted with.
 

[B0WIE]

I've not seen that. I recall a thread on AGF last year where a good number of people commented on the low saddles on new Martins they either bought or saw in store. It was a big discussion, with people sharing pics, and seemed to indicate a trend.
The premise also doesn't make sense as too high a saddle can cause immediate issues like cracking the bridge because of the rotational pressure. I don't see any maker being eager for warranty issues. Yes, rotational pressure does create more volume but the goal is not to create as much rotational pressure as possible.

Regarding necks, some people are very particular about them but I've personally never found it to be something that I would prioritize over sound. I've never played one that actually bothered me (aside from narrow necks). If someone requires a certain carve, many makers offer different necks. You can also have a luthier modify a neck, so long as what you want is subtractive.

[jpmist]

I was watching a video today and the demonstrator commented on how the big three (Gibson, Martin, and Taylor) are now angling their necks back. He said you will see this and that the instruments now have higher bridge bones. He went on to say that this creates more volume from the instrument. Is this true?

I despair at reading stuff like this because a) my hearing is poor and b) I defy anyone to hold in their mind a memory of "how loud is it" for more than 30 seconds - the time it takes to switch from one guitar to the next to compare.

But I'll climb down if anyone wants to put the physics in play here between a neck with a more acute angle relative to the saddle than another. It all really boils down how the string vibration gets transferred to the saddle and then to the soundboard.

Just spitballing here - so if that string angle is more acute that might translate to more energy from the string to the saddle but the final judgement is simply will a 5 degree increase in neck angle increase the string energy to the saddle enough to make the guitar noticeably louder? 🤷🏻  My hunch here is yeah, sorta, but not significantly more than you'd get if you simply strummed a bit harder. . .

[mike in lytle]

I was watching a video today....

Please give us the location of the video..

[B0WIE]

The physics behind a pin style bridge on an acoustic guitar is that the saddle crates a rotational pressure on the top. The top not actually just bouncing up and down but is also rocking due to string torque. If you raise the saddle height you are increasing the lever. If we remember the principle behind a long lever being easier to move than a short one, we can see how the taller saddle can more easily crate movement. Movement of the top pushes air and that creates volume.

Break angle is involved as it influences how much energy goes into the top vs staying within the string. This also happens at the nut. The energy isn't just lost though, it travels into the neck and/or top and adds overtones before going back to the string. This influences the color and character of the instrument.

If anyone is interested, there is acoustic science information available to read about studies done on acoustic instruments and how components of the instrument influence sound. One thing Ai is good for is asking it to dig up these studies so you don't have to spend forever searching.

[Queequeg]

I despair at reading stuff like this because a) my hearing is poor and b) I defy anyone to hold in their mind a memory of "how loud is it" for more than 30 seconds - the time it takes to switch from one guitar to the next to compare.

Just spitballing here - so if that string angle is more acute that might translate to more energy from the string to the saddle but the final judgement is simply will a 5 degree increase in neck angle increase the string energy to the saddle enough to make the guitar noticeably louder? 🤷🏻  My hunch here is yeah, sorta, but not significantly more than you'd get if you simply strummed a bit harder. . .

So, it begs the question- what are your thoughts regarding breaking in a new guitar and opening up as it ages?
Can you remember what the instrument sounded like 6 months ago? A year ago? 30 years ago?
I can't, which is not to say that the sound didn't change and/or improve with age as the wood dries, and becomes lighter, and flexes more easily to resonate. I certainly believe that to be true.
But memories are tricky things, subject to all manner of failures, deception and mismanagement.
Only speaking of and about myself, you understand.

[B0WIE]

So, it begs the question- what are your thoughts regarding breaking in a new guitar and opening up as it ages?
Can you remember what the instrument sounded like 6 months ago? A year ago? 30 years ago?
I can't, which is not to say that the sound didn't change and/or improve with age as the wood dries, and becomes lighter, and flexes more easily to resonate. I certainly believe that to be true.
But memories are tricky things, subject to all manner of failures, deception and mismanagement.
Only speaking of and about myself, you understand.

Fascinating subject. On the AGF, I used to frequently see people claim that humans had remarkably poor sound memory. This never made sense to me as I, as part of my living, do component comparisons and A/B tests and I find even subtle things easy to recall and things I haven't heard in years still sound as I remember. When I have a certain cable plugged into my guitar amp, I instantly know it without even looking. So, I looked into this and found people are often referring to a study that was done poorly and the extrapolation was questionable at best. In fact, I found papers that just declared that study faulty. However, that original study made it into many popular news publications and became accepted as fact.

 In one of the papers that challenged the idea that humans have poor sound recall, one line really stuck with me and I'd like to share it; It's the fact that if we heard our mother's voice, we would likely recognize it, even if it had been years since we heard it. I think most of us could instantly recognize many family members, friends, celebrities, etc. Hundreds of humans that we can identify through sound. Sound memory doesn't just disappear. It's part of how we developed and survived as a species.