CS Martin OM28 WG EIR (edit - now also 0-18 content)

[BlueBowman]

Larrivee sound immensely improves after a good 10 years of play. Couldn't say if same for Martin. But I've specifically noticed Larrivee open up tremendously over time.

One of the great pleasures of my music playing life has been hearing my Larrivee "open up" over the years. It has done so to a degree I've never experienced in another guitar. I wish that experience on every guitar player. I think it bonds you and your guitar like nothing else.

[Silence Dogood]

I maintain my belief that Martins are like Mercedes Benz. People buy em because that's the top tier, and they are indeed marvelous. But Larrivee to me is more like an Aston Martin or Lotus or Maserati. Larrivees turn heads at a pickin' party or open mic night. 

I get why people like Martins.  I like them too, and there have been plenty of them that I picked up that were just amazing guitars.  But it kind of bugs me that everyone has one.  I mean, you look at a big star on TV and he's playing one, and so is the guy down the street at the open mic.  I'll see a NGD thread and often it's a Martin, and I think, "Really?"  It's kind of like when someone gets a new mandolin.  Ah, another burst-finished F-style... just like everyone else plays. 

I'm proud to be a Larrivee owner because it's a road less taken.  I can't tell you how many times over the years I've had another player ask me about my guitar.  You can see them being converted right before your very eyes!  It's always so much fun to watch. 
 

[BlueBowman]

I get why people like Martins.  I like them too, and there have been plenty of them that I picked up that were just amazing guitars.  But it kind of bugs me that everyone has one.  I mean, you look at a big star on TV and he's playing one, and so is the guy down the street at the open mic.  I'll see a NGD thread and often it's a Martin, and I think, "Really?"  It's kind of like when someone gets a new mandolin.  Ah, another burst-finished F-style... just like everyone else plays. 

I'm proud to be a Larrivee owner because it's a road less taken.  I can't tell you how many times over the years I've had another player ask me about my guitar.  You can see them being converted right before your very eyes!  It's always so much fun to watch. 
 

I'm of the opinion that a good guitar is a good guitar, no matter the name on the headstock. I've found some wonderful lesser known makers by being open-minded.

I'll share my experiences with Martin. I've been around them all my life. And where I live, you don't own a guitar unless it says "Martin" on the headstock (though this is changing for the better). I've had several really good, smaller Martin's (the dreads are WAY too bass heavy for my style). They sounded great the first few days after a string change, but afterwards would lose too much clarity and get muffled. The trebles can get a little thin up the neck, too (but to be fair, this is true of a lot of guitars). I play bare fingered, so I need an articulate guitar. That's why I moved them on. If I only played in the open position and with a pick, I might not ever having anything but a Martin. Those guitars excelled there, but I like to play all over the neck AND I value clarity.

While I wouldn't trade my Larrivee for five Martin guitars, I make no bones about there being some very great sounding Martin's out there. What you land on will in large part be dictated by how you play, and of course what you want the guitar to sound like. IOW, it's all preference.

[Silence Dogood]

I'm of the opinion that a good guitar is a good guitar, no matter the name on the headstock. I've found some wonderful lesser known makers by being open-minded.

I'll share my experiences with Martin. I've been around them all my life. And where I live, you don't own a guitar unless it says "Martin" on the headstock (though this is changing for the better). I've had several really good, smaller Martin's (the dreads are WAY too bass heavy for my style). They sounded great the first few days after a string change, but afterwards would lose too much clarity and get muffled. The trebles can get a little thin up the neck, too (but to be fair, this is true of a lot of guitars). I play bare fingered, so I need an articulate guitar. That's why I moved them on. If I only played in the open position and with a pick, I might not ever having anything but a Martin. Those guitars excelled there, but I like to play all over the neck AND I value clarity.

While I wouldn't trade my Larrivee for five Martin guitars, I make no bones about there being some very great sounding Martin's out there. What you land on will in large part be dictated by how you play, and of course what you want the guitar to sound like. IOW, it's all preference.

Great post.  I took the Martin tour in NazPenn a few years ago.  What an operation!  One of the coolest things I've ever done, but for some reason it didn't move me one inch closer to actually wanting a Martin.  They had some guitars on the floor at the end of the tour for folks to play.  One of them (some kind of OM) was just amazing.  I mean, the thing almost jumped off my lap it was so alive. They damn sure know how to make a good guitar, but there's something about my personality that likes the less-traveled path. 

[guitarman001]

BlueBowman - totally agree re ageing with your guitar!

Silence DoGood - I have also liked taking the alternative route. I love Larrivee and seeing others play them. I never thought I'd get a Martin let alone two in two weeks but as Blue says, a good guitar is a good guitar (it's taken 25 years to find two really good ones locally... and in just two weeks!).

BTW guys thanks for reading my spiels. I just enjoy talking guitar and learning as the years go by, what this and that does to the sound (builder is the biggest thing obvs!), comparisons etc. However it does tend to get in the way of just playing music at times!

[Silence Dogood]

BTW guys thanks for reading my spiels. I just enjoy talking guitar and learning as the years go by, what this and that does to the sound (builder is the biggest thing obvs!), comparisons etc. However it does tend to get in the way of just playing music at times!

Absolutely!  What's better than geeking out over guitars?  It's a lot healthier than heavy drinking or blowing our paycheck at the strip club. 
 

"For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbors, and laugh at them in our turn?" Jane Austen

[guitarman001]

That's exactly what one of my guitar friends says! :)

BTW you know what's funny.... I was into Larrivee about 12 years ago which, for the UK, was pretty early on. Larrivee was the true underdog, priced well and new to market. These days I hear people talk about companies like Furch in this way "the new guy, bit more affordable" etc. Tell you what, though. They do good guitars but they don't hold a candle to my Larrivee's!

[BlueBowman]

"For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbors, and laugh at them in our turn?" Jane Austen

Great quote!

That's exactly what one of my guitar friends says! :)

BTW you know what's funny.... I was into Larrivee about 12 years ago which, for the UK, was pretty early on. Larrivee was the true underdog, priced well and new to market. These days I hear people talk about companies like Furch in this way "the new guy, bit more affordable" etc. Tell you what, though. They do good guitars but they don't hold a candle to my Larrivee's!

I've played several nice sounding Furch guitars. They're a little more overtone heavy than my Larrivee's and less "woody" (for lack of a better term). In the guitar world, I think their adjustable truss rod tool with the flexible neck is one of the coolest and most useful things I've seen in a long time. I'd like to have a few of those in several sizes.

[guitarman001]

I wasn't aware of that bit of technology - power to them for innovation!

[William2]

Since the subject of necks has come up, I was surprised to see on a recent survey on AGF that more players preferred the bolt on neck. I like the dovetail connection. Do players hear a sound difference?  I asked my dealer has he sells both and he said it is kind of subjective, but he thinks the bolt on connection has a more modern piano like sound but added that was just his take on it. I realize a lot of boutique builders use the bolt on connection. Does all this metal make the neck heavy?

[BlueBowman]

Since the subject of necks has come up, I was surprised to see on a recent survey on AGF that more players preferred the bolt on neck. I like the dovetail connection. Do players hear a sound difference?  I asked my dealer has he sells both and he said it is kind of subjective, but he thinks the bolt on connection has a more modern piano like sound but added that was just his take on it. I realize a lot of boutique builders use the bolt on connection. Does all this metal make the neck heavy?

They both can make a fine neck-body connection in the right hands. I own both styles, and the neck-body intersection never enters my mind while I play.  I'd be surprised if anyone could pick out the tonal differences between the two attachments.

Some builders claim that adding weight in the neck (either via a denser neck wood or by using an intentionally heavy bolt-on system) can increase sustain in the guitar, because the energy from the resonating body doesn't dissipate into the neck - it "bounces" back into the body. (Double sides in a guitar operate on a similar principle.) This makes sense to me, just from a physics standpoint.

As for the added weight of the bolt-on, yes, it certainly can add weight compared to a dovetail. But, I have a guitar that weighs 3.6 pounds. It has a bolt-on attachment. I played it for months before I even realized that fact. So a light guitar can be built with bolt-on necks.

The biggest advantage in using a bolt-on system is in servicing the guitar (neck reset) quite easily. It's faster and less likely to cause damage than resetting a dovetail neck.

[William2]

"Some builders claim that adding weight in the neck (either via a denser neck wood or by using an intentionally heavy bolt-on system) can increase sustain in the guitar, because the energy from the resonating body doesn't dissipate into the neck - it "bounces" back into the body. (Double sides in a guitar operate on a similar principle.) This makes sense to me, just from a physics standpoint."

That is an interesting concept I never heard of. I've read reviews of Furch instruments, and many have commented on their long sustain.

[BlueBowman]

That is an interesting concept I never heard of. I've read reviews of Furch instruments, and many have commented on their long sustain.

There are lots of these concepts builders use to decide on the overall design of a guitar. All of these little decisions can add up to great effect in the end. I also find it quite interesting, and I love learning about them all. With so many decisions, it just gives us a whole new level of appreciation for how hard it is to get things right consistently from one guitar to the next. 

I don't know if that's why Furch's have long sustain, or not. There are other factors in the top and back (the density and damping of each, the bracing, the coupling between them, etc) that are more important for added sustain than the neck attachment. And like I said above, bolts are not the only way to add weight to the neck. If a builder wants more sustain, they can use a denser neck wood. Pretty cool stuff though 

[guitarman001]

I think (correct me if wrong) that a bolt-on neck on electrics gives a snappier response. I had a Suhr with this iirc and it certainly felt/sounded like that. In terms of neck resets, what a joy...