Songwriting question

[Sandstorm]

With a little background here, can any of you fellas relate or give some advice?

When writing original material, sometimes I have versions that are strumming and single notes combined...fitting together in a nice arrangement and to a constant groove....other times I can play more or less then same thing in a fingerstyle arrangement with slight variations or other voicings...bass notes etc....

Feels like when I'm playing late at night or early in the morning and really get into it with fingerstyle I want that arrangement to be the "final version" other times I get into the spirited strumming and flatpicking and think I want that to be the final version.

At the end of the day, how do you decide which direction to go?

When I bought the steel string my thought was to use strumming and flatpicking rythem and use my classical guitar to play single note melodies and arpeggios and mix them together but I love this OM40 so much I want to use it for everything!

[Silence Dogood]

I'm not much of a songwriter but I have written a few pieces over the years, mostly just things that came out on their own or that I stumbled upon.  If I sit down with my guitar and a pad of paper, nothing is likely to happen.  I just don't understand how people can write songs like that and come up with ideas.  It's just not my gifting. 

At any rate, of the things I have come up with, I tend to play them a bit differently each time I go through them. Sometimes more fingerpicked, sometimes more strumming, sometimes with licks added or left out.  Recording something tends to set it in stone, but I don't do that often.  I'm one of those that chokes when I know the record button is on.

I say just play it however it seems to want to be played at any given time.  That's all part of the fun.   

[ducktrapper]

Why does there need to be a "final" version. One thing I learned from Bob Dylan is that a song, your song, is yours to do whatever you like with. Even 50 years later. So play it fingerstyle at night and flatpick it in the morning. Play it on kazoo at noon.   

[Snivlem]

(A) when you're playing it, it's your song, your stage.

(B) both Glen Frey and Gregg Allman shared the same story about watching Jackson Browne's songwriting. "No magic, you just do it until you don't suck anymore." "I threw away 200 songs, then I wrote one called Melissa."

9am teakettle
Riff
Riff
10am teakettle
Chorus
Chorus
11am teakettle
Verse
Verse chorus
Chorus verse
Verse
Noon teakettle
...

[Sandstorm]

Why does there need to be a "final" version. One thing I learned from Bob Dylan is that a song, your song, is yours to do whatever you like with. Even 50 years later. So play it fingerstyle at night and flatpick it in the morning. Play it on kazoo at noon.   

I guess I mean final version as in if I were to put it on a record, what kind of presentation should it have...or if I was going to share a track with a percussionist, it would need to be a more complete structure.

The other consideration was to blend both and for recording purpose that would be fine but might lose impact if you play live with 1 guitar
..so I'm kind of in a period where I'm trying to organize, arrange and condense some originals into a nice presentation that sounds interesting for 1 guitar.

[ducktrapper]

I guess I mean final version as in if I were to put it on a record, what kind of presentation should it have...or if I was going to share a track with a percussionist, it would need to be a more complete structure.

The other consideration was to blend both and for recording purpose that would be fine but might lose impact if you play live with 1 guitar
..so I'm kind of in a period where I'm trying to organize, arrange and condense some originals into a nice presentation that sounds interesting for 1 guitar.

I guess I'm saying it's your call. How many times have we heard, after it's all done, I wish I had done it differently? Only almost every time. John Lennon, rather famously, hated every thing he recorded. Dylan just moves on and does new versions. There is no real answer to your dilemma. Do the best you can and move on.   

[CelticDave]

With a little background here, can any of you fellas relate or give some advice?

When writing original material, sometimes I have versions that are strumming and single notes combined...fitting together in a nice arrangement and to a constant groove....other times I can play more or less then same thing in a fingerstyle arrangement with slight variations or other voicings...bass notes etc....

Feels like when I'm playing late at night or early in the morning and really get into it with fingerstyle I want that arrangement to be the "final version" other times I get into the spirited strumming and flatpicking and think I want that to be the final version.

At the end of the day, how do you decide which direction to go?

When I bought the steel string my thought was to use strumming and flatpicking rythem and use my classical guitar to play single note melodies and arpeggios and mix them together but I love this OM40 so much I want to use it for everything!

Songs are living breathing things, ever evolving. How many versions of your favorite songs can you find? When we record them, it's only capturing a moment in time, not the definitive expression of it.

[ducktrapper]

Songs are living breathing things, ever evolving. How many versions of your favorite songs can you find? When we record them, it's only capturing a moment in time, not the definitive expression of it.

Just so.

[Sandstorm]

All good insights here fellas.

If I wrote down the group of songs I want to play together and write a preference beside each for whether it is a strummer and/or flatpicker, or fingerstyle there's a rather even variety that I think I can appreciate.

At the end of the day I guess you have to discern when to omit some parts or versions otherwise if you try to use everything you might just end up with a long repetitive tune. 

And very true the songs continually evolve...Its part of the fun

[Sandstorm]

 Since I'm new to steel string acoustic after 28 years of electric and 12 of classical, maybe I'm subconsciously looking for a reason to justify another Larrivee.  I think an LV or Jumbo would compliment my OM40 nicely. Hmmm

[Silence Dogood]

This discussion reminds me of something.  I've got an instrumental piece that I came up with circa 1995 that has a pretty strong melody line that is unmistakable: but in all these years I've never played the intro to the piece exactly the same way.  Another strange thing that I've never been able to understand is that I get a bit of anxiety every time I'm about to play the piece.  It's as if I feel that I should have settled upon a completed version long ago.  This always spoils the first bits of the tune, but after I get started I always end up enjoying it a lot.  The thought of recording this piece also scares me a bit, so I've never done it.  It's just interesting how irrational it all can be. 

[Sandstorm]

This discussion reminds me of something.  I've got an instrumental piece that I came up with circa 1995 that has a pretty strong melody line that is unmistakable: but in all these years I've never played the intro to the piece exactly the same way.  Another strange thing that I've never been able to understand is that I get a bit of anxiety every time I'm about to play the piece.  It's as if I feel that I should have settled upon a completed version long ago.  This always spoils the first bits of the tune, but after I get started I always end up enjoying it a lot.  The thought of recording this piece also scares me a bit, so I've never done it.  It's just interesting how irrational it all can be. 

I can relate exactly to what you're saying there.

I've had a lot of amps and pedals and variety of tones at my feet while playing electric I rarely played a piece all the way through in its entirety and when I thought about recording it I'd get anxiety thinking about all the tracks and tones and mixing and balancing I wanted to have and never really ended up accomplishing anything.

Since I've ditched all my electric stuff I've become more resolved putting the pieces together so its a step in the right direction and I'm making progress and making music. 

[Silence Dogood]

I can relate exactly to what you're saying there.

I've had a lot of amps and pedals and variety of tones at my feet while playing electric I rarely played a piece all the way through in its entirety and when I thought about recording it I'd get anxiety thinking about all the tracks and tones and mixing and balancing I wanted to have and never really ended up accomplishing anything.

Since I've ditched all my electric stuff I've become more resolved putting the pieces together so its a step in the right direction and I'm making progress and making music. 

I can relate to all of this.  I go through seasons where I'll play my electric guitar quite a bit, but I find all the knobs and options very distracting.  It's hard to just settle on a tone and get about the business of playing.  One of the (many) great things about acoustic guitar is that it has its own sound system built in.  After fussing over string and pick choices (or lack of pick), one can just get on with the business of playing music. 

[CelticDave]

This discussion reminds me of something.  I've got an instrumental piece that I came up with circa 1995 that has a pretty strong melody line that is unmistakable: but in all these years I've never played the intro to the piece exactly the same way.  Another strange thing that I've never been able to understand is that I get a bit of anxiety every time I'm about to play the piece.  It's as if I feel that I should have settled upon a completed version long ago.  This always spoils the first bits of the tune, but after I get started I always end up enjoying it a lot.  The thought of recording this piece also scares me a bit, so I've never done it.  It's just interesting how irrational it all can be. 

I also have one in double drop D I started around the same time as yours when I was a young teen. It continues to evolve as the years pass and I've yet to record it officially. I have a D-03R "Vine" en route, so maybe I'll finally record it, do a vid, and post it here. 

[Silence Dogood]

I also have one in double drop D I started around the same time as yours when I was a young teen. It continues to evolve as the years pass and I've yet to record it officially. I have a D-03R "Vine" en route, so maybe I'll finally record it, do a vid, and post it here. 

What exactly is double drop D?  I always tune down a whole step and often drop D from there.  Is that double drop D?

[CelticDave]

What exactly is double drop D?  I always tune down a whole step and often drop D from there.  Is that double drop D?

It's just lowering the high and low Es both down to D. I've heard it called "double drop D" since "drop D" sometimes implies only the lower E being tuned down.

[ducktrapper]

Then there's the partial capo which gives you something that resembles drop E.

[Silence Dogood]

It's just lowering the high and low Es both down to D. I've heard it called "double drop D" since "drop D" sometimes implies only the lower E being tuned down.

Cool. I've never tried that.

[CelticDave]

Then there's the partial capo which gives you something that resembles drop E.

Yes!