Kinda slow here

[unclrob]

Is everyone on spring break or something.I know I'm slow as its spring break.Not much news on my end after not being able to play a guitar about 8 weeks.Just got the ability to hold a guitar again now I need to get my hands and fingers back up to speed.

[B0WIE]

Seems pretty standard for this place. There will be next to no activity for a few days, then be bustling for a few. Whenever I see the "thread ender" stuff (which I've still never clicked on) get bumped up I know it's a slow week.

[247hoopsfan]

Well, I was busy fingerpicking on my JCL 40th for a good hour and a half or so today.  Working on a new original tune.
Does that count for activity? 

[unclrob]

Well, I was busy fingerpicking on my JCL 40th for a good hour and a half or so today.  Working on a new original tune.
Does that count for activity? 

YEP!!!!! 

[ryler]

Man, Rob, when you can't even get a "kinda slow here" thread off the ground, you really know that it's kinda slow here!  I might have to go visit the AGF and trash the Martin brand to get some feisty forum life going.

[ducktrapper]

Man, Rob, when you can't even get a "kinda slow here" thread off the ground, you really know that it's kinda slow here!  I might have to go visit the AGF and trash the Martin brand to get some feisty forum life going.

Heh. I complained about the lack of finish under the pick guard of my D-35. That went over like a lead balloon. Apparently, even though Martin no longer does that, it was not stupid at all.

[unclrob]

Man, Rob, when you can't even get a "kinda slow here" thread off the ground, you really know that it's kinda slow here!  I might have to go visit the AGF and trash the Martin brand to get some feisty forum life going.

ryler I was once on that forum for a minute or 3 before I was told that I needed to buy add space if I was going to give free advice.

Heh. I complained about the lack of finish under the pick guard of my D-35. That went over like a lead balloon. Apparently, even though Martin no longer does that, it was not stupid at all.

Back in the day it was one less step in finishing the guitar if they put the guard on before the finish but alas latter down the road they ended up peeling up and we had to replace them after repairing the cracks that were caused buy the guard being under the finish.Oh don't tell any Martin owners.


Yes its been slow and I haven't been any help as I'm done buying guitars,don't get me wrong there are guitars I want and I even posted about it but I'm happy with my OM03PA.

[ducktrapper]

ryler I was once on that forum for a minute or 3 before I was told that I needed to buy add space if I was going to give free advice.


Back in the day it was one less step in finishing the guitar if they put the guard on before the finish but alas latter down the road they ended up peeling up and we had to replace them after repairing the cracks that were caused buy the guard being under the finish.Oh don't tell any Martin owners.

My local guitar repairman was in the shop when I bought the new pick guard. He said he was surprised there was no crack under it. As it is, the new pick guard fits but there is still a ridge from the edge of the unfinished area so it didn't fit perfectly. And besides I'll always know it's bare under there. Kind of bothers me for some reason. Did Martin think that their pick guards were forever? I just can't see why they ever did it this way. Far be it for me to tell CFM loyalists that, however. Apparently, even though they have mostly stopped building this way, their "authentic" models and even the 100K guitars still do it like this. I thought that most owners had no idea there was no finish under the pick guard and I really can't imagine wanting them that way but apparently, they do. Go figure.

[jnidoh]

Been reading this post and looking at my d-35.  Never thought any one would glue on a pick guard before finishing the top.  Could understand if the finish would interfere with the pg adhering but at least stain the wood....

  Sitting here staring at the guitar and almost tempted to lift the guard a bit to peek under but that would probably be #47 on my list of stupid things done (this month).

john   

[ducktrapper]

Been reading this post and looking at my d-35.  Never thought any one would glue on a pick guard before finishing the top.  Could understand if the finish would interfere with the pg adhering but at least stain the wood....

 Sitting here staring at the guitar and almost tempted to lift the guard a bit to peek under but that would probably be #47 on my list of stupid things done (this month).

john  

What year is it? That was my argument with the Martin loyalists. They defended the practice as something people want but I figured that most owners would merely assume there was finish on the entire top and, like me, would be disappointed to discover otherwise. 

[jnidoh]

Ducktrapper,

  Not sure I understand....why would there be cracks in the top under the pg?  Is it the removal of the pg that causes it or the fact that the wood is unfinished?

john

[ducktrapper]

Ducktrapper,

 Not sure I understand....why would there be cracks in the top under the pg?  Is it the removal of the pg that causes it or the fact that the wood is unfinished?

john

Good question. From what I understood, it's not caused by taking the p.g. off but discovered that way. I would think it's caused by not finishing the top and having it dry out under there but can't say for sure. I gather the crack happens under the p.g. beneath where the finger board extends into the body, between the sound hole and the face of the upper bout and that it's not uncommon. Jim said I was lucky. That's all I know. Maybe Rob can fill us in.  

[Dr. LJ]

It is actually caused by the pickguard shrinking over time and, because the guard is glued right to the wood, it pulls the  wood with it and  causes what is commonly known as the pickguard crack. It is sometimes called the b-string crack because it is usually on that side of the guard. Many older Martins have this crack and it can usually be fixed so that it is not noticeable.  If you are lucky, the crack is under the pickguard so it won't show but a common  spot is along the edge of the pickguard.
Martin has not attached pickguards like that for many years.  
Martin started using adhesive back guards in around 1982-84 that are applied over the finished tops, so the problem no longer exists.
D-35s first came on the market in 1965 so up until the early 80s, the pickguards would have been attached under the finish.
Martin owners, especially those who own older Martins, are well aware of the pickguard crack.  Too be honest, most don't think it is that big of a deal.  They just get it fixed.

[ducktrapper]

It is actually caused by the pickguard shrinking over time and, because the guard is glued right to the wood, it pulls the  wood with it and  causes what is commonly known as the pickguard crack. It is sometimes called the b-string crack because it is usually on that side of the guard. Many older Martins have this crack and it can usually be fixed so that it is not noticeable.  If you are lucky, the crack is under the pickguard so it won't show but a common  spot is along the edge of the pickguard.
Martin has not attached pickguards like that for many years.  
Martin started using adhesive back guards in around 1982-84 that are applied over the finished tops, so the problem no longer exists.
D-35s first came on the market in 1965 so up until the early 80s, the pickguards would have been attached under the finish.
Martin owners, especially those who own older Martins, are well aware of the pickguard crack.  Too be honest, most don't think it is that big of a deal.  They just get it fixed.

Hey LJ! Long time no see. How's it going over there at The Hole? You and Bauman still into squirrels? Anyway, thanks for clearing that up. Apparently, Martin owners, other than me, can be very weird. 

[Dr. LJ]

I know a couple of guys with older Martins that have the repaired cracks. Another guy had an older one that didn't have the crack but the guard was starting to shrink so he removed it and had a new one installed.
I don't like cracks but they can be fixed and they don't cause a problem as far as tone and playability is concerned.
If it was a good guitar before the crack it will be a good guitar after it is fixed.

[jnidoh]

  Thanks for the info gentlemen.....bought it new  in 2017 so guess there's no problem.  

john

[ducktrapper]

 Thanks for the info gentlemen.....bought it new  in 2017 so guess there's no problem.  

john

Apparently, it will be finished before the p.g. was put on. Still can't figure out why that didn't make sense in 1975. 

[Dr. LJ]

Well, it is a case of 20/20 hindsight.  It was how it was always done.  They had no idea 50-60 years ago that the pickguard material was going to shrink and cause a problem and for most of the life of the guitar there was no problem.  Once they started seeing the cracks, they looked at how it was done before and made a change. It did not happen to new guitars.
It is kind of like the celluloid that Gibson used for tuner buttons, pickguards and binding many years ago.  They had no idea that stuff would deteriorate and fall apart in 60 years.  I have seen old Gibsons with crumbling buttons and pickguards that needed to be replaced. Not 100% of the ones built that way, but a significant number need repairs.
Who knows what may show up as a problem on today's new guitars in 60 years?  I won't be worrying about it, but some yet as unborn guitar player might.

[ducktrapper]

Well, it is a case of 20/20 hindsight.  It was how it was always done.  They had no idea 50-60 years ago that the pickguard material was going to shrink and cause a problem and for most of the life of the guitar there was no problem.  Once they started seeing the cracks, they looked at how it was done before and made a change. It did not happen to new guitars.
It is kind of like the celluloid that Gibson used for tuner buttons, pickguards and binding many years ago.  They had no idea that stuff would deteriorate and fall apart in 60 years.  I have seen old Gibsons with crumbling buttons and pickguards that needed to be replaced. Not 100% of the ones built that way, but a significant number need repairs.
Who knows what may show up as a problem on today's new guitars in 60 years?  I won't be worrying about it, but some yet as unborn guitar player might.

I still ain't buying it. Only the incredibly near sighted would think that not finishing the entire top before adding an accessory (which is what a pick guard essentially is) is an intelligent choice. I don't see why you would need to see 50-60 years into the future in order to do that. If that makes me a horse's ***, so be it.   

[Dr. LJ]

It doesn't really matter what you buy or don't buy.  That is how Martin did it up until 1984 and it is why the pickguard crack is common.
I would imagine if Martin could go back and not attach the pick guards they way they did then, they would do so.  Thing is, they can't.   Stupid decision, bad decision, or whatever you want to call it, acetate pickguards were put down using a strong glue that bonded that guard to the top and when the guard shrank, the tops cracked, usually along the grain.
I am not defending it or saying I think it was a good way to do it.  I am just explaining what was done and why the problem exists.
Today a totally different type of pickguard is used, it is applied to a finished top, and the problem no longer exists.
As far as waiting 50 years is concerned, I just meant it took a long time for the problem to show up.  It took years for the guards to shrink enough to crack the top.  Up until that time, nobody knew there was a problem in doing it the way they did. There was no reason to think the guards were going to shrink. When they did and the cracks appeared, it was oh oh time.  Bad lesson learned.
It tends to be the 70s era guitars that have the problem. Also, luthiers I know fix the crack, apply finish over the bare wood and put on a guard with an adhesive backing. Sometimes a slightly oversized pick guard is used to hide it all.