Better Looking Wood = Better Sound?

[slowslow]

Does better looking wood sound better than wood with some different patterns and imperfections? Does better looking mean better quality? If this isn't so, how do makers pick out the 'higher quality' wood from a stack of same type of woods

[jimmyd]

Wood is graded for both appearance and tonal quality. Traditionally the highest tonewood grades were perfectly straight grain with superior tonal properties. There are categories, Mastergrade, AAA, AA etc, for tonewoods. This is an exhaustive subject and there are lots of opinions about this. You might try a search for "bearclaw" on this forum or check out some custom luthier web sites. Here are a couple of links if you want to read up on what some  luthiers and suppliers have to say.  Hope this helps. I'm sorry but I don't think there is a short answer to a good question.
http://www.bourgeoisguitars.com/tapping_tonewoods.htm
http://www.timbretone.com/newsite/grading.asp

[slowslow]

interesting. When i buy my next guitar, maybe i should look for imperfections in the wood since that might affect sound. Also what are "voiced tops". What is involved in the process of voicing a top and how much does this help the sound.

[slowslow]

or maybe the 'imperfections' are bearclaws and are a good thing?

[ronmac]

A key point made by Dana Bourgeois:

It is important to remember that wood, when considered generically, can be responsible only for certain aspects of the tone of any guitar. Equally important are the design of the guitar, the skill of the maker, and the quality of the individual pieces of wood from which the guitar is made. Species selection can, however, be a determining factor in the creation of a very special guitar or a guitar designed for a specific purpose.

And here's a link to two of his articles on "voicing":

http://www.bourgeoisguitars.com/voicing.htm

http://www.bourgeoisguitars.com/still_voicing.htm

Great insight into guitar building.

Ron

[Ratishna]

No, better looking wood does not necessarily sound better or worse than wood with some different patterns and imperfections.

E. Shoaf

[flaggerphil]

All I know is...two of the best LOOKING guitars I ever owned I ended up selling because the sound just didn't do it for me.  And one of the plainest guitars I ever owned was one of the best sounding.

On the other hand, my Pelican is one of the prettiest guitars I've ever seen and also has a sound to die for.  So...

So much of it is subjective that it's hard to really say one way or the other.  But I don't think better looking automatically means better sounding.

[Peter Cree]

Great subject, much covered on many forums.

There is a reason why you have to play alot of guitars to find ONE that really stands out.   It doesn't matter which brand or cost etc. it's THAT particular guitar.

Martin puts out @ 65,000 guitars a year and you have to play a number of the same model to get a "good "one.   That says alot.

I think this really fuels the small makers since they have so much more control.   When you get a good one of any brand it really stands out.

The more guitars you make the tougher it is to have consistency.

[mazareth]

As an owner of both a D-03R and a D-09, I don't hear a whole lot of difference in sound. If anything, the D-03R is a shade louder than the D-09! However, I've had the D-03R since the end of Sept. and just got the D-09 a couple weeks ago. I assume the heavy playing the D-03R has gotten is what makes the difference.

As to wood quality, the spruce on the 03 is probably the tightest I've seen on any guitar I've been able to examine closely. It has noticably more lines per inch than the D-09. I'll go into more detail when I do the review of the D-09 in 6 weeks or so... The rosewood on the D-09 has slightly straighter grain than the D-03 does. The flame maple binding on the 09 really catches peoples' eyes.

Mark

[slowslow]

wow, i never knew that having an instrument 'broken in' could make such big difference in sound, hopefully mine will keep sounding better too. Can you tell a little more about the D-03r vs D-09? I'm surprised about the D-03r being louder, coud you also post pics of the D-03r, id like to see that tight grained spruce. :D

[mazareth]

Hi Slowslow,

Until I got the Larrivees, I was always somewhat sceptical of the whole "opening up" thing, but there has been a noticable change in the sound of the D-03R. The tone has broadened and there's more headroom when I strum the guitar. My understanding is that the biggest changes take place in the first 6 months, although the sound continues to develop as the guitar ages and is played.

Both the D-09 and D-03R are set up with the same action. Since Larrivees are braced the same across the various series, I'm assuming the D-09 will catch up as I play it over the next few months.

Comparing the two guitars side by side, the necks feel the same. The rest of the visible differences are cosmetic, ie. satin vs gloss finish, fancier binding, woodgrade, etc. Time will tell if the difference in the grade of wood will be noticable in the sound of the guitar. My first impression is to say no. Maybe this is something our forum dealers could chime in on. They see a lot of guitars from different makers and at different price points. Larrivee seems to be known for the quality of woods used even in their 03 and other lower priced lines.

As to pictures unfortunately, I don't own a digital camera at this time. I do eventually want to get some pictures taken that I can post on the forum.

Hope this helps,

Mark

[slowslow]

thanks  

[onetubetone]

Yeaah, I haveto agree with the whole opening up thing.  A few months after I bought my LV-03K I started noticing something different (and much improved!) coming outa my guitar.  It made me very happy.   :D  

[dbirchett]

Dave Schmidt indicates that the straighter grained Blackwood is supposed to sound better than the wavy & flamed version and that is why the -03s sometimes have more wildly grained (and flamed) woods than the -09 Blackwoods. I don't really doubt Dave, I am sure that his straight-grained -09s sounded superb, but I have not heard it from anyone else.

If the straight grained -09s sound better than my -03, then they must really be something!

Don't know whether this is supposed to hold true for Blackwood's kissing cousin Koa.

Has anyone done any comparison on this?  

[philster]

Dave Schmidt indicates that the straighter grained Blackwood is supposed to sound better than the wavy & flamed version and that is why the -03s sometimes have more wildly grained (and flamed) woods than the -09 Blackwoods.

It is accepted by lots (not all) of luthiers that quilted mahogany, maple, etc. doesn't have the tonal character that straight mahogany, flame maple does.  They state the burled wood is softer and absorbs more vibration than the harder straight stuff.  

Don't know if it translates over to blackwood or koa, but then again Koa is prized more for it's looks than it's sound.  It sounds great, but it is about the looks...  

Dave is a pretty straight shooter.  He may just be reporting what others have told him (as in Larrivee), but I can't blame him, cuz if Jean or Matthew told me something like that, I'd take it as gospel too.

[wyodeb]

That's interesting. I have an older OM-09 Koa with very straight grain compared to many of the newer koa photos I have seen here lately. The color is very striking--gold and reddish stripes, but it is not "curly."

Deb

[dbirchett]

Dave is a pretty straight shooter.  He may just be reporting what others have told him (as in Larrivee), but I can't blame him, cuz if Jean or Matthew told me something like that, I'd take it as gospel too.

I did not intend to imply in any way that I thought that he was not being straight-forward. If anyone took it that way, it was not what was intended. I don't think you took it that way, Phil. But, as you indicated, I don't know the basis for Dave's statements either, whether it was anecdotal, based on detailed comparison or relating what someone else had told him.

I was just trying to see if anyone had the same experience or had heard it from another source. Perhaps one of the luthiers (Hello ... Matthew ... are you out there?) could shed a little light on this from their experience.

As I have indicated, my LV-03BW has some nice flame to the back (but the grain is pretty straight) and it sounds great to me. Maybe the straight grain has as much to do with it as the absence of flame.

OK, I'll shut up now.

[philster]

I did not intend to imply in any way that I thought that he was not being straight-forward. If anyone took it that way, it was not what was intended. I don't think you took it that way, Phil. But, as you indicated, I don't know the basis for Dave's statements either,

Hey Don.  I certainly didn't see your message as any shot at Dave whatsoever, and my response wasn't intended as a shot at anyone either.  Luthiers opinions are like chisels...  They all have at LEAST one  :P  I was only trying to say that I would feel comfortable repeating woodlore that was passed on by Jean L. since he truly is one of the more respected wood guys in the industry, not just a respected luthier.