More Polishing Questions

[wyodeb]

I know this has been done to death, but I can't find the answer to this question. Maybe it's so basic everyone knows but me...

When using 0000 steel wool, do you use circular strokes, or short straight ones (with the grain of the wood, or against). I want to polish my koa parlor guitar. It's an older one, and the satin finish looks a bit dingy. I'm sure it would look much better after polishing.

Deb

[Miata13]

Deb..most certainly.... with the grain vrs circular as the steel wool; even with 0000 size, will leave very fine scratches noticable if you use circular strokes; otherwise nearly invisible.

I love the polish job on my all koa parlor..just be patient and take your time.  You might also consider doing the headstock...with a polished top, the polished headstock complements the satin fingerboard and top nicely IMO.

Rick

[wyodeb]

Did you polish the top, back & sides? Or just the back & sides? I want to do the spruce as well as the koa. Did you use the Maguires step one, or just the 0000 steel wool?

Deb

[freeindeed]

Hey Deb,
  Orsino recommended using the steel wool instead of the Meguiar's step 1. This is the way I did it and it turned out great! I used the step 3 polish though which has silicon in it. Use a non-silicon wax if you think you'll ever want a different finish on it.

                               Chris

[Miata13]

Deb...my parlor is all koa.... I chose just to polish the koa top and headstock.  Used 0000 steel wool for 1st Step; 4-5 coats of Dave's Final Note guitar polish for Step 2 and then 2 coats of my favorite wax Griot's Garage Best in Show.

Rick

[wyodeb]

Did you mask the bridge and the heel? If so, with what. I want to leave the neck the way it is, although I'll probably do the headstock. I'd love to be brave enough to do Pete. I'm leaving him alone for now, though. Better a -01 series parlor! Miata, did you post pics of yours? I'd like to see it.

Deb

[Miata13]

Deb..Tom (Mr. Orsino his own self!) hosted my photos..here's the link but not sure they're still available.  I can try to e-mail them directly to you.

http://www.larriveeforum.com/forums/index....3&hl=koa+parlor

To answer your question...I used masking tape on the bridge but didn't feel the need to mask the fingerboard.

Rick

[orsino]

Rick,
I fixed the links above.

Deb,
I've never masked my heel and bridge. I've wiped the excess off quickly though.

[wyodeb]

Those are some beautiful photos! My parlor isn't nearly that impressive, but I still think it will look nice after being polished. I'm hoping to make that my next weekend project. I'm debating whether or not to replace the pickguard afterwards. I don't use a pick, so I'd just get another clear one from Larrivee if I decide I want one. I'll probably just leave it off. There is a bubble under the one that is on there now.

Deb

[sawdustdave]

In my newest "Fine Woodworking" magazine there's a small article about polishing wood projects using Meguires. Off the top of my head I don't remember which "#" they suggested using, but then again, off the top of my head I can't remember where I put my hair, either...  :(

Basically, the "Orsino" method is a nice way to get a "French Polish" finish on the guitar. As a woodworker I must admit that it's a lot easier than rottenstone and pumice!

Dave

[Peter Cree]

Use the wool to flatten out the particulate in the finish and then step 1 on a cotton cloth.  (tee shirt material)

With the poly finish the other steps including wax are not necessary.

[naboz]

Deb,
Dont hesitate!  Give yourself a couple hours, use either the Meguiars 3 Step, or 0000 steel wool for the 1st step (short straight strokes--say that three times fast!), mask off the bridge and the end of the fingerboard with painter's masking tape (low tack).  I went right over my satin pickguard on two different guitars and it not only didnt hurt them, it took away the "swish"!  No sign still (6-8 mos. later) that they were hurt in any way.
Be ready for some sweat equity in the polishing stage (step 2), as 4 to 5 coats will work your arm, but you keep seeing the luster build and it is worth it!  B)
Then 2 coats of Step 3 to seal it and you and your guitar are smilin' and stylin'!!

[Peter Cree]

Please don't misinterpret this, but step 3 has silicon in it and doesn't seal anything.  Your guitar is sealed and finished already.  the step 1 and 2 are rubbing compounds that act like very fine sandpaper.  There is no coating left behind.

I truly don't wish to be argumentative but I'm a professional finisher and have much experience in this.  This is why I warn against step 3.  Silicon makes repairs very difficult if not impossible.

If anyone has used step 3 , i'm sure it looks nice.  But if you ever get a repair done on the finish or wood , please tell your luthier that it's on there.  Same with the wax.  Mineral spirits will remove the wax but the silicone is whole different beast.

thanks and cheers,

Peter

[Peter Cree]

Hi pigtown,

Just received your e-mail on my last post with a question. so I'll answer here.

There are no coats of Meguires left behind.  Your finish is intact and you haven't removed anything.  All the Mequires is doing is "sanding" down the finish that's there.  Nothing is drying and leaving coats in it's place.

Satin finishes are a normal finish with a suspened particulate to refract light making fingerprints/scratches, etc less visible.  When using 0000 wool and then the Mequires what you are doing is flattening (mowing down) the surface particulate making it more glossy and less obscuring of the wood.  Think of something like shaving your face.  Take away the little hairs and you can see skin. And it's smoother.

The Mequires is finer than the steel wool so it removes any scratches left behind by the wool.

In all woodworking you sand the wood to make it clear.  Meaning you are removing the scratches and irregularities of the surface.  Wood is a bundle of fibers like the end of a broom.  You begin with 80 grit sandpaper and move up  in steps ie 80/100/120/150/180/220 grits.  Each makes the previous smoother but is also taking out the scratching left from the coarser papers.  If you skip a step then you leave behind the marks made by the previous grit paper.

Then you add the finish ( UV cured poly in this case).  Steel wool is then "sanding" the finish not the wood.  Using the Mequires step 1 or Swirl X is just the next finer grit.  If you skip to no 2 you leave marks of the wool.  you can jump to two but it takes more labor to get the results and it can lead to inconsistent sheen.

There is no chemical reaction here.  It's all finer and finer sanding.  Your finish is completely intact. It's just been fine sanded by the rubbing compound.

There is no "sealing". so skip no 3.  Guitars aren't autos.

A good tip is to wrap the cotton "polishing" cloth around a flat block of wood and add the mequires to that.  you can then get into the corners and edges near the bridge and fretboard.  Otherwise you'll see a haze around those areas.

I hope that helps you. And I hope that doesn't step on anyone's toes.

Peter

[Dude2Dude]

Hi Peter,

Two more quick questions:

1. Just to be clear, are you recommending three steps? Steel wool, then Meguiar's Deep Crystal #1, and finally, Muguiar's #2? (And no wax after, obviously. I figured that one out, at least!)

2. What would you recommend to maintain the new semi-gloss finish? Just a damp cloth? Or can you/should you use a polish?

Thanks, and sorry for beating the subject to death!

[Peter Cree]

The finish on your Larrivee is the toughest in the industry.  Resitant to almost everything including water, oil, alchohol..........doesn't mean you should pour water on it.

So to clarify,  a damp cloth will do everything in keeping the guitar clean.

If something sticky is on it , a cloth with some naptha (lighter fluid) should do the trick.  Beware of goof-off since it contains xylene.  Also naptha can take off the pick gaurd, dissolving the adhesive.

step 1 = lightly mowing down the particulate on the surface with 0000 steel wool.  rub with the grain............lightly.

step 2= Scratch X (step 1 of Mequires)or the equivalent.

Thats usually plenty.  Step 2 Mequires is optional.  ps, i can acheive the full results with just wool.  But only experience makes that possible.

Be careful with the wool.  And make sure these polishings don't cancel the warrantee.

Giving finishing advice on a forum is a bit dangerous.  I hesitate to do it but the demand seems to be very high.  and people seem to think they are adding finish or a coating.

[naboz]

I have steel toe hiking boots, Peter, so no harm done!  I like what I have w/the Meguiar's 3-Step, but was unaware that the silicone would be a "negative" factor (later).  So, the 3rd step (wax) doesnt seal the polish?
And what is it that a future refinisher will be needin'?
...But, otherwise, the "new finish" (those of us that did the whole 3 step) is fine/stable?..for future reference  :blink:  

[orsino]

Peter is bringing up some great points.
But, if I have to relinquish my Grand Poobah of Polishing title. we'll have to find a different name than Cree-mating.
;)  :lol:  

[wyodeb]

Peter is bringing up some great points.
But, if I have to relinquish my Grand Poobah of Polishing title. we'll have to find a different name than Cree-mating.
;)  :lol:

You're Bad! (I'm surprised Rob didn't chime in with something like that!) :lol:

Deb

[unclrob]

In my 30 years of doin repairs I've done over 1000 refin's,all I can say is I'm done.I'll leave it to younger braver people.Besides I don't want to work that hard.

And yes I was going to say something but I felt that the Grand Poobah of Polishing should do it..... :D