FLU Season is here

[Danny]

That isn't an analogy. 

Pilgrim's Progress was.

[GA-ME]

  Pilgrim's Progress was.

Nah, that was an allegory...       

[Danny]

  You say tomato I say potato.

[GA-ME]

hmm . . . how 'bout this:

Can anyone find five statistically significant clinical trials that either prove or disprove the efficacy of the flu vaccine?

Bonus points if the trials are demonstrably neutrally funded.

Good luck...

[LawDogStrgsAttach]

Not sure I need instruciton in formal logic from you, but I do suspect your objections lie more with science than a published academic's lay approach to elevating an issue. 

Staph is in the environment.  Staph collects on hands.  Staph can kill.  Soap reduces staph, which reduces morbidity/mortality from physician transmission.
Infuenza is in the environment.  Influenza infects people.  Influenza can kill.  Flu vaccine reduces incidence and prevalence of influenza, which reduces morbidity/mortality from physician transmission.

Physician gets fired for refusing to wash hands.  Physician also gets fired for not taking a flu vaccine. 

Sure, there are confounders to every situation, especially in contexts riddled with variables, like epidemiology, microbiology, and virology.  Perfect analogy is impossible.  Fact remains, the decision of people not to take the flu vaccine when they are directly in contact with immunocompromised persons is a moral threat; one for which one can lose privileges.  Don't like it, or will not use a mask, then do not become a health care professional.

[LawDogStrgsAttach]

hmm . . . how 'bout this:

Can anyone find five statistically significant clinical trials that either prove or disprove the efficacy of the flu vaccine?

Bonus points if the trials are demonstrably neutrally funded.

Yes - retrospective studies are published by the CDC annually.  The efficacy of the flu vaccine is not disputed in the science, medical, and public health communities.
The WHO does the same on a global scale. 

[unclrob]

OP here I didn't want this to get into all the bs it got into I just wanted everyone to know that I got the flu,went down,got better,went down and one of the draw backs is I farted ....A LOT,I mean 4 FRIGGIN DAYS OF PASSIN WIND,DAY AND NIGHT...if you don't want to get a flu shot which I didn't this is what happened to me and being the friendly kind idiot I am I thought I {again pun intended} pass it on.If for what ever reason someone does or doesn't want to get a shot that's fine by me,the fact that some employers say if you want to work here you get a shot or wear a mask or you don't work here anymore.That's the employers choice as they are the ones responsible in the end for your action while under there employ.So lets leave it at that,as I teach my son action have consequences and vice a verse a.

[LawDogStrgsAttach]

 

[Mr_LV19E]

[LawDogStrgsAttach]

I guess I do not understand your point.  These are statistically significant, published annually, without potentially biased money.  You may inquire with the CDC to access and read them.  This is not a mere claim that they were done.

[unclrob]

So you have read them? If so can you provide titles, authors, and dates, or specific links?

:waveBeing an rude idiot here {me},you can look it up yourself you have a computer.






Cr*p I see another ignore in my future.

[LawDogStrgsAttach]

So you have read them? If so can you provide titles, authors, and dates, or specific links?

For starters - CDC Annual Flu and Summaries

If that is not enough, you can submit a FOIA request for all the data and internal memoranda.  It's a great country that we live in!

[LawDogStrgsAttach]

ktron - I guess you are right.  Vaccines are a sham and just a control mechanism that was invented and propagated by the military-industrial complex.  What was I thinking!   

I fear for this country.  You should take my public health graduate class.

[Walkerman]

Not sure I need instruciton in formal logic from you, but I do suspect your objections lie more with science than a published academic's lay approach to elevating an issue.  

Staph is in the environment.  Staph collects on hands.  Staph can kill.  Soap reduces staph, which reduces morbidity/mortality from physician transmission.
Infuenza is in the environment.  Influenza infects people.  Influenza can kill.  Flu vaccine reduces incidence and prevalence of influenza, which reduces morbidity/mortality from physician transmission.

Physician gets fired for refusing to wash hands.  Physician also gets fired for not taking a flu vaccine.  

Sure, there are confounders to every situation, especially in contexts riddled with variables, like epidemiology, microbiology, and virology.  Perfect analogy is impossible.  Fact remains, the decision of people not to take the flu vaccine when they are directly in contact with immunocompromised persons is a moral threat; one for which one can lose privileges.  Don't like it, or will not use a mask, then do not become a health care professional.

I quite agree with your post....except for one point.  I don't believe it is a "moral" threat....rather, it is a physical threat.  One may have moral reasons for not wanting to take the shot, but one would be subsequently fired because of the resulting physical threat he/she posed to patients.

[Walkerman]

http://www.grouphealthresearch.org/news-and-events/newsrel/2013/130111.html

[Walkerman]

Might I suggest "brief and to the point."  That way, folks might finish your posts.  It was even too long to include here as a quote.

[Walkerman]

OK - short version:

The article loosely describes a CDC report that makes estimates from a study that implies the current flu shot might be 62% effective against last years flu strain.

Some vaccines work - flu vaccines often don't work because the flu virus mutates too quickly.

People who want to know about flu shots should read these reports and the studies they report on. 

Actually, the CDC reported in "Morbidity and Mortality" the results of 5 studies, from 5 different sites, which showed a 62% reduction in flu with those who had been vaccinated. 
BTW, this "mutates too quickly" thingy is way overdone, as evidenced by the 62 % reduction.  Moreover, were what you say true, we'd still have folks dropping like flies from HIV infections.  We don't.  Obviously, the Humam Immunodeficiency VIRUS is not mutating too quickly.

[JOYCEfromNS]

The effectiveness of flu vaccines in any given year is entirely dependant on successful prediction of which strains of flu will circulate.

Maybe showing my ignorance on the subject, but with both the USA & Canada each being so large geographically are the vaccines developed for region expectations or are they developed say for the expectation in New York and applied to users in Vancouver and New Mexico as well as New York  

[Caleb]

I guess I got the flu last week. No fun (understatement). Don't get the shot. Ever. Did once and got sick anyway.  Quick way to lose five pounds and get a few days off work. 

[Walkerman]

Maybe showing my ignorance on the subject, but with both the USA & Canada each being so large geographically are the vaccines developed for region expectations or are they developed say for the expectation in New York and applied to users in Vancouver and New Mexico as well as New York  

I suspect there is one over riding shot.  I remember when the swine flu was the flu de jour, and the bird flu too, those were flus without borders.  The great flu epidemic early on in the 1900s was also world wide.  Countries have borders....diseases do not.  But then that's JMHO.