My new OM 03 R, will bass/sustain 'open up'?

[WWJP]

I've got my OM 03 R just 2 weeks ago, straight out of the box. It therefore wasn't played in, action was shop-adjusted and I put on a set of new d'Addario EJ19 Bluegrass strings because I don't like the Cleartone strings and I wanted to try the medium bass strings. It's a beautiful guitar, with some irregular bearclaw in the top (I'm not sure whether I really love that, but it does add character to an otherwise 'standard' looking top and could possibly add something to the sound of the instrument too (the experts contradict each other on that matter I believe, it depends on who you ask)).

Anyhow, I'm not all that experienced with new guitars (this is my second new guitar), let alone all solid ones so I've got possibly a silly question to ask you all; will the sound improve say in the coming months or should I say years?

Right now, if I strum it, the bass sound is satisfactory and the guitar has a beautiful overall sound, but if I start fingerpicking the bass strings seem to miss sustain compaired to the treble strings... Should I accept that as something that comes with the OM shape or will this improve over time and possibly with other strings as well?

Greetings from The Netherlands, where Larrivée guitars are relatively hard to find compaired to your average Martins and such (but these guitars will sell themselves I'm sure :-)

[jeremy3220]

Right now, if I strum it, the bass sound is satisfactory and the guitar has a beautiful overall sound, but if I start fingerpicking the bass strings seem to miss sustain compaired to the treble strings... Should I accept that as something that comes with the OM shape or will this improve over time and possibly with other strings as well?

There are plenty of makers who build OM's with more bass than Larrivee does. The bass may improve slightly over time but that's nothing to bank on. For strings I would try 80/20's if you haven't already, I think they have more bass.

[Danny]

 Yes to the above and try EJ-17s.

[WWJP]

Thanks for the advice. I think I will have to give my Larri some time to open up (as I read on this forum a number of times) and keep trying different strings until I find just the right ones for me. Next to try are Martin SP's...

I do love this guitar though, after trying all types and brands, the Larrivée's sound just had it for me (that is in the price range in which I was looking). And if I had wanted a really strong bass sound, I should have bought a dreadnought or L shape, right? But that was not the shape I wanted. Let's just wait and see...

[Stephen Basil]

Hi there WWJP, my experience has been the same as yours.  I've had my OM-03R for almost three weeks and I was surprised too at how "tight" it was, never having owned such a new guitar.  The sound was nice enough, but had little projection and sustain, and the guitar itself had the boxy-stiff feel of a laminate (with an exceptionally nice neck).  I was sure I needed to change the Cleartone strings, so I ordered some Newtone Customs.  Anyway, the guitar has become a whole lot more active and responsive just recently, just in the last few days.  It's infinitely more fun to play because it's so palpably improving.

I played the guitar for a full ten hours yesterday, and my fears that I may have acquired a "dud" have been laid to rest.  I even like the gentle touch of the Cleartone strings, but in looking through the threads here, a heavier string is something to experiment with.

[flatlander]

Solid top guitars do break in. Different guitars have different degrees of change in sound. L-10 had a medium change which took a year or 2.   000-60 started have big change within a month and now after 7 months it has very much loosed up. May or may not increase bass. My opinion.

[goa]

On instruments "opening up" I've heard both sides: They don't really do that, we just "hear" a difference in time.  Or: They will sound better over time as the wood gets used to moving. 

Now my anecdotal evidence.  I bought a L-03SP a couple months ago.  At first I was not too impressed with the sound.  Nice, but not as good as my son's Taylor 310.  I played a week, put on some new strings and got a setup.  It sounded a little better.  Then we got into the humid season, and I've been playing it a couple hours a day.  The guitar really, no kidding, sounds better.  It seems to resonate, and in some environments (small, "hard" rooms) it really glows. 

I think it's several things.  I've learned to pick it better, more evenly, and with the exact pressure the guitar likes.  And the guitar was dry from shipping and storage at the vendor.  But I also feel the wood is getting more broken in.  It just sounds that much better than 2 months ago. 

[L1D1]

On instruments "opening up" I've heard both sides: They don't really do that, we just "hear" a difference in time.  Or: They will sound better over time as the wood gets used to moving. 

My response:  I have a '59 Gibby J50 and there is no way anyone will convince me geets dont open up (this thing is a true cannon)........in fact given enough time, any solid body will explode in tone. Those that argue otherwise are likely referencing a relatively short time frame (ie under 20 years). I believe geets are constantly opening up which explains why we notice relatively subtle changes periodicaly however, its an agonizingly slow process. For a geet to really hit its "open" stride it would seem 30 - 50 years is required. Many builders today build light guitars in an effort to achieve that vintage sound and some do a good job of it but for the strongly built geet like a Larry to truly open..well they just havent been around long enough.

[Danny]

   I'm no luthier but I have owned a lot of guitars. They definitely change in tone thru the years and sometimes from day to day. Wood is moving all the time with environmental factors "opening the cells"  Spruce tops sound way different after a long period. Cedar tops won't change much. Don't know about Hog tops, I had one but my son has had it for several years now. I wouldn't think it would change as much as spruce.  The thickness of the finish on the top and sides has a lot to do with it. A 03 series is more open at the get go than a 10 or up.  Tightness and straightness of the grain makes a difference. There is no way...absolutely no way a 40 year old guitar made of similar materials bracing etc. would sound the same as a new one....NO WAY.
     The older my guitars are the more the environment effects them. Thought I do distinctly remember my 6 year old LV-03R being much fuller in tone on some days.  I began to notice it was during major shifts in weather. Then I read as much in an article somewhere (sorry).     
                 This may fall short as an example, but open a jar of sauce and pour it on pasta. Then go to Sicily and have some sauce that was prepared for one or two days. It will be full of subtle flavors. The jar of sauce is just as subtle as ketchup with a few chunks and a little spice. to a little kid it may even be better than the real deal from Italy. But don't feed it to the mayor of Rome, he'll know better.   Happy eatin and playin

[jeremy3220]

I think guitars open up but not to the degree people hear. What I usually hear from people is there new guitar sounds a little weak in the bass or treble, sustain, volume, or whatever then they play it for a few weeks and it opens up and those things improve. What I don't usually hear people say is 'wow this new guitar has great bass (or whatever)' and they play it for a few weeks and come back and say it's even better in that regard. I think alot of it has to do with expectation. They're use to their guitar(s) sounding a certain way then they get a new one and somethings different like... they think it's 'too bright' and they're old guitar is much more mellow sounding and they ask 'will the new guitar(that they're not use to hearing) mellow out?' and of course in a few days/weeks/months it does. So if you are use to hearing a guitar that is darker than you're new one it will take awhile to get use to the different balance, once that happens the bass will be easier for you to hear. Sorta like listening to a new song and you can't make out half the lyrics then after you've heard it many times the words are clear as a bell - but the recording didn't change only your perception.

. 

My response:  I have a '59 Gibby J50 and there is no way anyone will convince me geets dont open up (this thing is a true cannon)........in fact given enough time, any solid body will explode in tone. Those that argue otherwise are likely referencing a relatively short time frame (ie under 20 years). I believe geets are constantly opening up which explains why we notice relatively subtle changes periodicaly however, its an agonizingly slow process. For a geet to really hit its "open" stride it would seem 30 - 50 years is required. Many builders today build light guitars in an effort to achieve that vintage sound and some do a good job of it but for the strongly built geet like a Larry to truly open..well they just havent been around long enough.

How did it sound new? Many builders today build light guitars to achieve that vintage sound because that's how they were made in the 30's. The lightest built guitar I've played was a 30's Gibson, it felt like it was made out of paper. Those pre war Martins and Gibsons were light built guitars and would sound today different if they weren't.

[Danny]

What I don't usually hear people say is 'wow this new guitar has great bass (or whatever)' and they play it for a few weeks and come back and say it's even better in that regard.

I wasn't 100% sure what to expect from this Martin OM-21, but after changing the Strings..."Wow, it's even better now, and not by a little. But it was good to begin with.

.How did it sound new? Many builders today build light guitars to achieve that vintage sound because that's how they were made in the 30's. The lightest built guitar I've played was a 30's Gibson, it felt like it was made out of paper. Those pre war Martins and Gibsons were light built guitars and would sound today different if they weren't.

This is a good point, some of the Collings and Santa Cruz models are very light, and I guess Gibson never totally stopped making lighter guitars than the rest of the big builders. At least some of the models are still very light.
       Like classical guitar bodies that are made as light as possible to achieve the best sound, right?

[L1D1]

   This is a good point, some of the Collings and Santa Cruz models are very light, and I guess Gibson never totally stopped making lighter guitars than the rest of the big builders. At least some of the models are still very light.
       Like classical guitar bodies that are made as light as possible to achieve the best sound, right?

Yeah but those new light Gibbys dont sound anything like their 50 year old ancestors.

Sorry but the "Authentics" being built today, even though they are built to copy every aspect of the "Originals" including even the use of hide glue, sound absolutely great but they dont sound like the 60 year old orginals do today. Lets post again in 30 years when our Larrys have  matured.

[bluesman67]

Great guitar there, yes it will open up and improve.  You may want to consider having a bone saddle installed.  I had an OM-03R and the sustain noticeably increased when I changed the saddle to bone.

[Danny]

   I know it may seem like I'm wanting to "win" but I don't really care about that. Jeremy brought up a valid point, about builders making vintage style gits.

The Martin vintage line , especially some of the EC series are just in a different realm than all of the other gits in the room, when I get the chance to put my hands on one. I've heard the same about the Steven Stills models, though I have never seen one or played one. And although Gibson is not consistent, for sure; they still can put out some that are as nice as any boutique shop. I have played some of them and they are 100% Gibson. 
     My LSV-11 will probably take a long time to fully open. JCL talked about this recently. The gloss tops are double the finish of the satins. And other issues that I'm tired of stating.  The 03's are more "OPEN" to start with IMHO. But I'm willing to wait on the LSV. I've got others to make loud noises with.
     I am looking at some of these "lighter" vintage gits....who knows...   Oh yea, I do own some really old gits so I have them right here to compare some of these things we're discussing. We also have a Vintage Shop in Austin that makes me feel like a kid in a candy shop. I think I should be glad there isn't a 12th fret here... I would be broke... I've got a dozen as it is.   Danny

[jeremy3220]

                  I wasn't 100% sure what to expect from this Martin OM-21, but after changing the Strings..."Wow, it's even better now, and not by a little. But it was good to begin with.
   

well you know I wasn't including string changes.

Yeah but those new light Gibbys dont sound anything like their 50 year old ancestors.

Sorry but the "Authentics" being built today, even though they are built to copy every aspect of the "Originals" including even the use of hide glue, sound absolutely great but they dont sound like the 60 year old orginals do today. Lets post again in 30 years when our Larrys have  matured.

Surely you're not saying that Larrivee's once aged will sound more like vintage Gibson and Martins than the newer Martins and Gibsons built in the same style as the vintage ones.

[Danny]

well you know I wasn't including string changes.

Surely you're not saying that Larrivee's once aged will sound more like vintage Gibson and Martins than the newer Martins and Gibsons built in the same style as the vintage ones.

He's not saying that, I hope, cause they won't ever sound the same JCL built them to sound the way his recipe calls for.

               I knew you weren't meaning string changes and other stuff. I just happen to be playing this right now between a few posts and it was fresh in my experience, just as you had phrased it.
                You made some very valid points, Thanks,   Danny

[GA-ME]

I think one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that as guitars stabalize over time the funtion more as a unit and less as component parts. My 000-60 sounded tight and the bass wasn't as open as it is now, but I belive that is mostly due to finally getting the break angle correct and driving the top appropriatly. As Jeremy mentioned, people get used to their guitars sound. My friend Craig is a classically trained guitarist, with very different technique than myself. I used to sit and listen to him play the 000 and she sounded sweet when he played her. When I played her, I got all kind of wolfy notes going on and a weird "down in the well" reverbery soud that was unpleasant. As I learned how to attack this particular guitar, things changed for the better. I now know what the guitar likes to get the sounds out I am trying to get. So, after all this long windedness, I am saying its a bit of both: Guits open up some, and the way we play them changes, and its the cumulative combination that we subjectivly view as changes in the guitars tone!

[WWJP]

Great guitar there, yes it will open up and improve.  You may want to consider having a bone saddle installed.  I had an OM-03R and the sustain noticeably increased when I changed the saddle to bone.

Great guys, thanks for all the comments. I love the guitar anyway so I'll just be patient with the sound. Regaring the bone saddle; does it really make a difference? According to a luthier I asked for a piece of bone, a Tusq sadle is even better (tighter or something like that). Anybody any experiences with that? I did buy a piece of bone to replace the Tusq one, but I must say I'm confused, it depends on who you aks...

And yeah, I read some of your comments, before this Larri I had a dreadnought for 2 years (just your standard Cort with solid top, nothing too fancy so I sure made a big leap upward   ) So yes, I'm used to the way the Cort sounded after playing it for 2 years and after several string changes. My ears have to adjust to this new beauty, we'll just have to get to know each other I think. I have to learn how to play it so it can show all it has in tone and volume and the Larri needs to be played in (and perhaps a bone saddle and nut and strings...)

[Danny]

                                "...perhaps a bone saddle and nut and strings.."

                 Yea, just play it Danny

[Winnipeg]

Great guys, thanks for all the comments. I love the guitar anyway so I'll just be patient with the sound. Regaring the bone saddle; does it really make a difference? According to a luthier I asked for a piece of bone, a Tusq sadle is even better (tighter or something like that). Anybody any experiences with that? I did buy a piece of bone to replace the Tusq one, but I must say I'm confused, it depends on who you aks...

And yeah, I read some of your comments, before this Larri I had a dreadnought for 2 years (just your standard Cort with solid top, nothing too fancy so I sure made a big leap upward   ) So yes, I'm used to the way the Cort sounded after playing it for 2 years and after several string changes. My ears have to adjust to this new beauty, we'll just have to get to know each other I think. I have to learn how to play it so it can show all it has in tone and volume and the Larri needs to be played in (and perhaps a bone saddle and nut and strings...)

I had a fossilized walrus ivory saddle and bone nut put on my OM-03R when I got it about 2 years ago. The change in sound is subtle, but definite. The sustain is better and the notes ring out more. The volume may actually be slightly less than with the original Tusk, but the sound is definitely more appealing to my ears. I would not hesitate to recommend this. A great, and relatively inexpensive upgrade and if you don't like it, it is easy to put back the Tusk saddle.
Hani