Neck Resets - Fact Of Life

[dreamsinger]

*ameliorated*  

:blink:

Sorry, I wasn't aware that I needed to speak s  l  o  w  l  y and use small words in this group.  

[jimmyd]

I don't need no stinkin resets. ( My Larrivees are almost new!)
I asked our local luthier deity guy about resets once. He seemd to think it was common to require a reset on many older Martins. Doesn't that have something to do with the body sinking in front of the bridge on lightly braced guitars?  Seems to me that when the guitar gets too hard to play and there is not enough saddle sticking up above the bridge then a repair is in order. Don't listen to uncle rob. I know a lot more about this than him. I fixed a guitar once. He has been earning a living at it since Jesus was a corporal.  

[unclrob]

jimmyd "He has been earning a living at it since Jesus was a corporal. "
ROFLOL :lol:
That corporal remark might get you into trouble.

[orsino]

*ameliorated* 

:blink:

Sorry, I wasn't aware that I needed to speak s  l  o  w  l  y and use small words in this group.

ameliorated........What happened when the world's most famous female aviator's plane hit the ground.

[unclrob]

Tom...LOL and almost spilled my 13 year old single malt scotch...... :D  

[Fingertwister]

Ho Ho - but back on resets, surely the gauge of strings used must have a lot to do with the need for 'em? I use light/compound light strings & have never needed a neck resetting, except on 1 used Martin OM that had been strung with mediums; intuitively, I'd have thought that the substantial difference in gauges between light/medium would make a big difference?..

[orsino]

Well, the physics would support your argument. As Martin and other well-built guitars are rock solid enough to withstand a LOT of conditions, I guess I would wonder if the difference between lights and mediums would make a big enough difference to caose the mediums to to cause a reset sooner than lights in a normal guitar's lifetime.
My understanding is that the strength of the soundboard does affect the ability to use a higher guage string though.

[ashakes]

*ameliorated* 

:blink:

Sorry, I wasn't aware that I needed to speak s  l  o  w  l  y and use small words in this group.

ameliorated........What happened when the world's most famous female aviator's plane hit the ground.

thanks for the discussion
lurking and learning

and this just in:

*avoidable*
what a matador does...

[dreamsinger]

It seems to be a catch-22. If your top is so stiff that it needs mediums to respond better one would think that it would be more apt to resist the bellying that makes the reset neccesary. I think other variables have a little more influence, especially the heat and humidity that the guitar experiences.  

[unclrob]

I'm using 14-58's on all but my 12 strings never had a problem.Most guitars that I've had to do neck set's on were pretty abused,ie left in cars,barns,the rain,etc etc.I should also add that some guitars are attached with dowels instead of screws or dovetails these show up a lot also.

[dreamsinger]

I'm using 14-58's on all but my 12 strings never had a problem.Most guitars that I've had to do neck set's on were pretty abused,ie left in cars,barns,the rain,etc etc.I should also add that some guitars are attached with dowels instead of screws or dovetails these show up a lot also.

Any Gurians? Mortise and tenon joint with tapered dowels.  

[unclrob]

Not yet.

[orsino]

OOOOHHH......you guys are SO sexy when you talk techy! ;)  

[unclrob]

Tom Still waiting for that pix of you in fishnet's and G string....Now That's sexy.... :D  

[Randy_R]

The older Martins didn't have adjustment rods. just like the early Larrivees didn't.

In fact when I bought my D-28 martin in 1971 the strings were high for about a year until the neck settled in. The necks were built in anticipation of the stress of use. I also recall that it was 'normal' to expect a neck reset every 5-10 years.

[ducktrapper]

Correct. My 1975 Larrivée does not have an adjustable truss rod. However, it's neck has not noticably budged. The action is low and it has NEVER buzzed. It stays in almost perfect tune, left in the case for long periods. The 6th string sharpens just a nanotad. At one time the Larrivée website claimed that neck resets were almot non existent. I would think lawyers would advise you not to make claims of that nature.  
However, here's my thinking on the subject. If you make 100 guitars and 1% of them need warranty work, that's no big deal. If you make 1,000 guitar, it's still only ten but once you make 50,000 or a million in Martin's case, the liability of having a possible 500 to 50,000 possible big warranty repairs would cause one to take some out some insurance or precaution in the form of an adjustable truss rod.  
A reset every 5-10 years? Only if Mr. Magoo has the job of setting the necks in the first place. It seems we're always talking about errors and poorly made joints when we are talking resets. Gluey messes and spaces. Not ones that were done properly to begin with.      

[Randy_R]

A reset every 5-10 years? Only if Mr. Magoo has the job of setting the necks in the first place. It seems we're always talking about errors and poorly made joints when we are talking resets. Gluey messes and spaces. Not ones that were done properly to begin with.

Again. I don't believe it was a matter of poor construction to begin with. But a fact of life if one wanted to keep a low string action on a pre-trussrod steel string guitar and use anything other than light strings.

My memory has been known to remember things in a funny way, or out of context, so just for grins I'll mosey over to the Martin Forum and see what some of the owners of pre-1970 dreadnaughts have to say about the matter.

It would also be interesting to hear what Matthew Larrivee has to say on this matter concerning the percentage of pre-trussrod Larrivee guitars that need a neck reset and what the conditions are that might hasten such work.

I'll probably add an early Larrivee guitar to my collection at some point in the future. Requiring a possible neckset doesn't bother me too much.

[Randy_R]

i stand corrected.

After checking on the umgf, what I was recalling wasn't a neck reset, but a neck press. A less drastic repair it would appear.

However:

quote:

I'm not sure what the teller meant when he used that term...but it sounds like it referes to heating the glue between the fingerboard and neck and "slipping" the fingerboard in such a way as to "straighten" the neck. the neck/fingerboard is then clamped or "pressed" into a straighter position, and left to cool. It is only temporary, and has been discredited by most luthiers because 1. it is temporary, 2. It's kind of a slipshod operation. 3. it doesn't work well anyway.

It really has nothing to do with neck sets, just with straightening the neck (two different things entirely).

[dreamsinger]

The older Martins didn't have adjustment rods. just like the early Larrivees didn't.

In fact when I bought my D-28 martin in 1971 the strings were high for about a year until the neck settled in. The necks were built in anticipation of the stress of use. I also recall that it was 'normal' to expect a neck reset every 5-10 years.

Huh?? The action got *lower*? With all other things remaining equal and unchanged (you didn't shave down the saddle, did you?) the action could only get higher, couldn't it? For the action to spontaneously lower over time seems physically impossible.

[dreamsinger]

After checking on the umgf, what I was recalling wasn't a neck reset, but a neck press. A less drastic repair it would appear.

The neck press, ah yes; looks like a medieval torture device for bending the excess relief out of the neck. A neck reset though has nothing to with the neck relief but rather the increasing neck angle due to the top bellying and it's almost never a result of a failure of the heel joint.