Are you Optimistic or Pessimistic?

[robv]

I don't see optiimism and pessimism as being inclusive with objective reasoning. I see objective reasoning as shaping our world view which is always dependant on our skill at objective reasoning, always changing and always different from someone elses'. Optimism and Pessimism have more to do with our approach to our world view and has more to do with hope and faith. It seems statements like "that's unamerican" are mean't to be conversation stoppers, I don't want to think about that, so it's unamerican. While when someone says " you're being pessimistic" has more to do with a difference in perception of world views. Given the same set of "facts" or theories.. say in regard to global warming some may consider the devastating coastal flooding while some may just think about the great surfing 
Cheers,
robv

[jeremy3220]

Sounds good.

My orientation is in "social constructionism" and I doubt you will be able to identify, much less define, "logic" as separate from the humans (and all our noise) who do it. The insights from so many of the post-modern philosophers have made it possible to avoid such tricky concepts as "objective" and "subjective" --they are considered relics from the Cartesian "modern" quest for certainty. The "social" in social constructionism proposes that those terms only have value in their use by people as "poetic" or rhetorical devices, not as "truth" statements.

But having said the above, your questions and interest in optimists and pessimists  sounds like a great research topic and I'm optimistic that you will have fun as you explore all this stuff.

Don't most people agree logic is seperate from human subjectivity? I mean formal logic works on mathmatical principles, which seem to be unisversally agreed upon. Like 2+2 always equals 4, and in formal logic A&~A* is truth functionaly false, who disagrees with that and has any proof? We as humans may not be able to perfectly use objective reasoning but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I think if anyone throws out the possibility of objective reasoning they are shooting themselves in the foot by trying to argue their point.


*ex. 'I am going to the store and I am not going to the store' (can't be true)

[bearsville0]

Hi Jeremy3220, you state:
"I mean formal logic works on mathmatical principles, which seem to be unisversally agreed upon."

Yes,  I agree that when we are being "logical"  or using "objective reasoning" we are thinking in a mathematically precise way.  That would be one way to operationalize it.

So I am not throwing out objective reasoning per se, I am pointing out that it only exists or can be understood as a particular kind of human activity or behavior, not as a separate entity as your description suggests. 

We have a tendency to talk about reasoning and logic AS IF they were separate/have always existed independently from the people who do it. We are very clever at forgetting that the concept is a construction. The next step would be to invent deities or patron saints of logic and petition their help when we're confused. Humans do the darndest things.

And none of this, by the way, would necessarily change your research into optimism and pessimism. Your question,

  "how well do people who think in terms of optimism or pessimism use logic compared to those who think they are neither an O or P. In other words, is an "optimist" more likely to be unwilling to accept an argument because they see the conclusion as pessimistic or coming from a pessimistic source?"

remains a good question as long as "logic" is clearly defined, as you have begun to do (which was my original request in my first post).

Thanks, this helped clear my head.

[bearsville0]

Hi robv

you state:
" I see objective reasoning as shaping our world view which is always dependant on our skill at objective reasoning, always changing and always different from someone elses'."

With all respect, robv,
if our world view is   "always dependent on our skill at objective reasoning, always changing and always different from someone elses' " doesn't  it makes for a very subjective world view. Now that's irony!

Best wishes

[D4ve]

I'd like to be an optimist, but I doubt if it would work out. 

Too funny 

[Old Geezer]

Guess I'm optimistically pessimistic. Or would that translate into pessimistically optimistic?
Aw hell, I guess I'm just wishy-washy!

OG