Bone bridge pins and saddle - a few things

[WorksInTheory]

Hi - I recently bought an MC-16GTE from someone. It came with a Colosi bone saddle and pin which I was excited about. but when I got it, it seemed the saddle was pretty low, especially on the treble side. Only a little of it was sticking above the bridge. I think it still played fine but then I changed the strings and now it buzzes on certain strings, mostly the G I think and only when played past like the 5th or 7th fret I guess.

I don't want to buy another bone saddle and I am hoping the person before me knew what he was doing and that the action is set up right. Is there anything I can do? I have Bluegrass strings on it now and they had Martin lights on it before.

Also - Do you have to keep pins aligned when you change strings? Meaning I always thought they all looked the same so I just pull them out and put them in a pile on the side and just grab whatever next pin I need and change that string. But I saw somewhere that someone said each pin is specific to each string? I hope not b/c all my guitars' strings then might have the wrong pin allocated! How do you tell?

[Fstpicker]

If you go to Bob Colosi's website, he sells some wood shims you can put under the bone saddles he makes. It is just made for those who have perhaps cut off a little too much accidently, and don't want to have to buy a whole nuther saddle again. A bit pricey though, so maybe you can come up with your own wooden material to shim it up with.

http://www.guitarsaddles.com/SaddleShim.asp

Jeff

[jeremy3220]

"Also - Do you have to keep pins aligned when you change strings? Meaning I always thought they all looked the same so I just pull them out and put them in a pile on the side and just grab whatever next pin I need and change that string. But I saw somewhere that someone said each pin is specific to each string? I hope not b/c all my guitars' strings then might have the wrong pin allocated! How do you tell?"

I don't think factory pins are specific to each string. But if they are Colosi pins they probably had to be sanded to fit. you just have to see which pin fits which string best, but don't worry too much about it.

[WorksInTheory]

I went back and played the guitar some more and you know what's weird is that only the G string has a buzzing issue in the upper neck(towards bridge).

[jeremy3220]

Well you don't know the history of the saddle before you got it. Maybe it was ordered for a different guitar or the previous owner shaped the top. It's possible the radius of the saddle is too flat.But whenever I have buzzing problems it's usually at the 3rd or 4th string.  Compare the height of the strings at the 12th fret, and see if the 3rd string is noticably lower.

[Hoser Rob]

You didn't specify just how high your action is.  To look at saddle and action height see http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/Saddle/saddle01.html.  It's the best guitar site there is.

If it didn't buzz before you changed the strings, I'd suspect the strings.  Did you change to a lighter gauge?  That sound definitely make it buzz more.  The neck can backbow a bit in summer in many places but that wouldn't usually make it buzz more up the neck but nearer the nut.  The action at the saddle may be too low for the string gauge you're using.

A saddle shim may be a good idea, and I know people who use them in the winter to counteract climactic action changes, but $15 is a hell of a lot for a silly shim.  I have a Colosi saddle and it's great but that's alittle much.  You could get a small piece of 1/64" rosewood veneer and make your own very easily.

I don't know where you read that each bridge pin is specific to each string but I wouldn't read that author again.  The only way that'd make sense is if the slots were all different sizes.  That's not only highly unlikely it's damn silly.

[WorksInTheory]

You didn't specify just how high your action is.  To look at saddle and action height see http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/Saddle/saddle01.html.  It's the best guitar site there is.

If it didn't buzz before you changed the strings, I'd suspect the strings.  Did you change to a lighter gauge?  That sound definitely make it buzz more.  The neck can backbow a bit in summer in many places but that wouldn't usually make it buzz more up the neck but nearer the nut.  The action at the saddle may be too low for the string gauge you're using.

A saddle shim may be a good idea, and I know people who use them in the winter to counteract climactic action changes, but $15 is a hell of a lot for a silly shim.  I have a Colosi saddle and it's great but that's alittle much.  You could get a small piece of 1/64" rosewood veneer and make your own very easily.

I don't know where you read that each bridge pin is specific to each string but I wouldn't read that author again.  The only way that'd make sense is if the slots were all different sizes.  That's not only highly unlikely it's damn silly.

Hoser - I did change the guage but up - well atleast from lights to bluegrass so the G string is still light. However I read that different manufacturers have slightly diff tension? Or maybe the heavier bass strings are pulling just in a way that affected the G string. I may go all light or all med next.

Yeah $15 is alot for a shim but that's predone - looks like he sells shim blanks as you will for 2-3. In any case I am going to just graft some wood from the back of the guitar, just go in a cut a piece out to put under the shim...  :GRN>

[pickngrin]

I just installed a Colosi bone saddle on my Tacoma DM9 and first off, Bob is a top notch guy to deal with in every respect!

Well, the original tusq saddle sounds better for what I do with this guitar. With the tusq, it has an awesome bass tone on the bass strings and I was hoping to keep that and add some more clarity across the strings.

So with the bone, the bass was a tad weaker and that won't work for me. The bone seemed to make full chords warmer and individual notes were possible more focused. Also, I could overdrive the guitar with a hard strum easier with bone and that's not desirable for me. Maybe it would have "played in" if I'd left it in but I just had to switch back to tusq to make sure of what I was hearing and sure enough, the deep bass was back. BTW, I'm running medium on a guitar that comes with lights.

I also did a recording before and after so there's no doubt. I don't think this would be the case with other guitars but I just wanted to share this with the forum. I'm happy to have learned this and there's so many variables at work that I think it's sort of a trial & effort thing.

[WorksInTheory]

I just installed a Colosi bone saddle on my Tacoma DM9 and first off, Bob is a top notch guy to deal with in every respect!

Well, the original tusq saddle sounds better for what I do with this guitar. With the tusq, it has an awesome bass tone on the bass strings and I was hoping to keep that and add some more clarity across the strings.

So with the bone, the bass was a tad weaker and that won't work for me. The bone seemed to make full chords warmer and individual notes were possible more focused. Also, I could overdrive the guitar with a hard strum easier with bone and that's not desirable for me. Maybe it would have "played in" if I'd left it in but I just had to switch back to tusq to make sure of what I was hearing and sure enough, the deep bass was back. BTW, I'm running medium on a guitar that comes with lights.

I also did a recording before and after so there's no doubt. I don't think this would be the case with other guitars but I just wanted to share this with the forum. I'm happy to have learned this and there's so many variables at work that I think it's sort of a trial & effort thing.

Hey thanks for the observation - that is interesting so Bone isn't always better, etc. I actually have the TUSQ that it came with so I may try your experiment. Wonder what pins do for it too. Probably not as much - I once heard the impact was in order of saddle, then pins, then nut.

[jeremy3220]

that is interesting so Bone isn't always better, etc.

Wonder what pins do for it too. Probably not as much - I once heard the impact was in order of saddle, then pins, then nut.

I've preferred bone saddles every time to TusQ, but I can see where someone would prefer the sound of TusQ. To me TusQ always has a slight plastic coloration that I just can't seem to live with. Bone seems to transfer more sound, just running your hand over the strings you can hear more nuances than with Tusq (IMO).

Pins are hit and miss. Some guitars I've heard a substantial difference others no difference at all. My Om-03MT doesn't care what pins are in it; but with the Om-21 I had, I couldn't stand the sound of bone pins in it. If I can hear a difference in pins I generally prefer wood. Bone adds a  coloring to the sound that seems to be sort of a separate entity than the sound the guitar normally produces, at least with the guitars I've put them in and actually noticed a difference.
As far as my OM/PW goes, I've tried bone in it but it wasn't a big enough difference. So it came down to me liking the looks of the ebony better.

[pickngrin]

I thought I'd better follow-up on my earlier post. Since deciding that my old tusq saddle was better than the new bone saddle from Bob Colosi, things have changed. I emailed Bob and he told me to make sure the bottom of the saddle was perfectly flat so that it would seat properly. Well, I hadn't even sanded the bottom because it was so close to the original, I didn't want to cut it short. Sure enough, the bass end of the saddle wasn't true and after I fixed that, the bone sounds much better and it's definitely staying in the guitar after comparing the before & after recordings. 

Kudos to Bob Colosi for his outstanding product and his great customer service.

[jeremy3220]

Good point pickngrin,
I always check the bottom of the saddle with a straight edge, making sure no light shows through any gaps. I also make sure the bottom of the saddle is 90 deg to the sides.