Adding a Fishmann soundhole pu to an I-Beam (?)

[mrrinse]

Hi,
I'd like to add my spare Fishmann Rare Earth soundhole active humbucker to the I-beam active on my L-05MT (which is far too succeptible to feedback by itself to be very useful at anything but a v quiet gig).
The Ibeam active has the soundhole volume control.
Ideally I'd like to have an internal blend control (or two separate volumes), possibly even B-Band XOM style with a crossover, to a mono output; but I'd settle for stereo if that's the only way.
Any thoughts on whether this is possible, and if so, how.

Thanks,
Dan

[ronmac]

This is a  great sounding combination that I have used in my L10, and a few other guitars.

Here's some info from the Baggs and Fishman sites.

I-Beam Passive:

8.1 Adding a second pickup: The passive iBeam comes pre-attached to the tip of our Strapjack Plus. If you wish to add a second pickup, you may easily do so by soldering the plus and ground wires to the ring pin and ground tabs, respectively. The two passive signals from these pickups can then be run down a stereo cord into an outboard mixer such as the Mixpro. When adding a second pickup, it is best if the impedance and level of both pickups are similar to minimize crosstalk. The output of the iBeam is high impedance and can be paired passively with other high impedance pickups like the LB6 and Ribbon Transducer.
Even though magnetic pickups are relatively low impedance and will bleed into the iBeam channel, the amount is often inconsequential and most magnetics will work well passively with the iBeam. For pristine results, add the magnetic pickup to the iBeam Active System, or use a Buffer Jack phatom-powered Mixpro accessory to buffer the iBeam at the guitar.

I-Beam Active:

10.1 Adding a second pickup: It is possible to add a second pickup to the iBeam Active; however, to avoid crosstalk, the second pickup must
have a low impedance output. This requirement essentially eliminates everything but magnetic pickups (such as the M1). Do not use highimpedance pickups like the LB6 or Ribbon Transducer with the iBeam Active System. To use a passive magnetic pickup with the iBeam Active, attach the magnetic to the ring channel (with the M1, this will mean sacrificing one of its included cables by detaching the plug).

Fishamn Rare Earth Wire to a Strapjack:

http://www.fishman.com/uploads/documents/2.pdf

[mrrinse]

Wow! Thanks. That's exactly the info I was looking for. Couldn't quite find confirmation re: matching them on the respective sites (at least in a way that I could understand would definitely work). Great to know that it works, and sounds good!

I've only a mono preamp (Para DI). Does anyone know if I can be wired to a blender, either inside the guitar or outside. Ideally I'm looking to spend as little as possible and definitely can't buy another preamp (studio and guitar purchases are bankrupting me!).

Thanks,
Dan

[ronmac]

Dan,

You really should consider doing the mixing outside of the guitar. The true benefit of a dual source system really requires different EQ and panning for the two seperate signals.

What are you planning on sending the signal to?

[mrrinse]

You have a good point!

My current setup is: Gtr (mono) -> Baggs Para DI with Johnson J-Station (Pod type unit) on effects loop providing compression and bucket loads of reverb. Baggs out -> either AER Compact 60 (vocals occupying the other channel) or PA system (sometimes via AER 60).

If it ends up in a PA, I could send the second signal direct to the PA. Unlikely to find a compressor for it there though at most of the venues I'm playing (or anyone that know's how to eq!).

I guess it worries me to not be in control of the sound. Also, I swap a lot between guitars (the LV-09 for open tuning duties) in sets, and swapping from mono to stereo presents additional complications for getting channels muted etc (if it's mono, I can just hit the tuner on the J-Station to cut the signal).

Conceivably, as I have a Littlelabs redeye (passive DI) and a focusrite voicemaster (for preamp and compressor), I could add these to the live setup to process channel two (though the voicemaster usually gets used for my vocalist since many venues here seem to lack compressors). Makes the rig even bigger and more unweildy though!

Any thoughts?
Dan

[ronmac]

Get a Baggs MixPro. http://www.lrbaggs.com/html/products/preamps_mixpro.shtml

-The Mixpro is a versatile 2-channel belt-clip mixer and preamp.
Features include:
- Works with just about any pickup combination including mini mics
- Small, lightweight design can be clipped to belt or attached to microphone stand
- All-discrete class A circuitry for sweet transparent sound
- Identical input stages on both inputs will work with passive or active pickups and mini-mics giving you an array of possible configurations
- Output phase inversion at fingertip access helps control feedback
- Switchable phantom power to either or both channels - gets the battery off of the guitar
- Variable master low-cut filter (trim control) is tunable from 27-225 HZ (12 dB/Oct.) and is a powerful tool for taming wild pickups or sound systems
- Internal relative phase switch for the optimum blend between two sources
- Variable gain for both tip and ring channel to match most pickups and mics
- Mono mixed output

[mrrinse]

argh!
you're absolutely right... but ... no ... more ... toys!
they ain't paying me enough for gigs (yet ... i can still dream, right?!)

Dan

[ronmac]

Well, the simple solution does not offer an EQ option, so unless you are very lucky, this may not work all that well for you...

It would be good if you could borrow one to try before you commit the cash.

Or,

You could buy a second PARA DI

Or,

You could buy a small mixer (with inserts)

[mrrinse]

you're a bad man! 

how bout a second para di and a mini mixer / mixpro!

nope. not spending any more money. i have a mixer (too big!) and a stereo 2U 31 band graphic eq (which i was planning to sell to partially fund the para di i've just bought)... think the objective is to keep the kit list down.

reckon i may have to steal back my voicemaster from vocal duties and use for the guitar, with the redeye as a passive di. the voicemaster also provides compression and (voice-optimised) eq with variable low pass filter.

if possible, it might be more appropriate for me to wire the i-beam to the ring (i.e. stereo right channel) to use with the voicemaster and use the fishmann as the tip / left main output (which feeds the para di/ j station rig above i use with the LV-09 in mono). seems this should be fine to me, unless i'm misunderstanding something about the endpin. any reason why i couldn't switch the I-Beam from the tip to the ring?

Dan

[ronmac]

I'll have a look at that and let you know.

[ronmac]

I can't find any info, but from my memroy I don't think that you can switch the configuration of the IBeam active. This shouldn't matter though. If you use an insert type "Y" cable from the guitar you can choose which signal goes to which processor.

[mrrinse]

hi ronmac,
many thanks for looking into this.

The reason i was keen to keep the fishman on the tip and the I-Beam on the ring is:
My main guitar is an open tuned LV-09 with A2.2. The A2.2 is mono only (to my knowledge!) - thus tip only on a stereo lead - and this feeds my main rig (Para DI and J-Station).
When i use the L-05MT, I'd like to be able to use it with this rig in mono with just the fishman (the I-Beam alone is too prone to feedback); and also because I'd like to process the fishman in the same way as the A2.2.

If I'm running a stereo rig, i'd reserve a second channel (the voicemaster rig) for the I-Beam.

With either setup, If I have to run the I-Beam on the tip and the Fishman on the ring, I'll have to swap the L for the R output plug over every time I change guitars. (As it stands, I already have to change the gain setting on the Para DI - which is really difficult because of where they've (bizarrely) chosen to locate it. And often hit the contour button on the Compact 60. Ok, so an extra lead changes or two isn't a massive drawback, but kinda annoying since guitar changes already disrupt the flow of a set. I find performing stressful enough as it is, and it's kinda easy to forget exactly what you need to switch around in the heat of the moment.

I've have another, closer scour of the manual and maybe ring Baggs to see if I can get any further with this.

Thanks again for you help,   
Dan

[ronmac]

Dan,

Let me know what you work out. I'm always interested in adding to my knowledge base.

[mrrinse]

Ok, so the Fishman can definitely be added. Involves shorting the battery and the 9V IBeam active battery powers both pickups (reduced life expectancy).
Apparently, much to my chargrin, only the Ibeam can be wired to the tip, and the Fishman has to go to the ring.
Not sure I really understand why, but that's what tech support said. They said it *might* be possible with some of the older ones.
Can't be blended internally. Only option that way would be to buy the element and blender, ditch the I-Beam active endpin and preamp (i.e. keep only the pickup). This would effectively give me an IMix - for $259 SRP. But I've kinda made a promise to myself not to buy any more toys.
Though an RNC would be most sweet!
Hope this helps.
Dan

[ronmac]

BS

Electrically there's no difference. I defy any electronic measuring device to identify which of two out of three connections in the jack its wired to.

as long as you are willing to KNOW and construct the right connectors and cables along the way to get them into the separate channels of a pre-amp.

The only reason might be is that the external preamp may have some differences from one side over the other, in which case the preamp would come with instructions saying only use side-A for xyz type of internal pickups and only use side-B for type abc internal pickups. 

The reason it really can't be changed is because of the construction of the IBeam active preamp. This is connected via a pc board that is populated with surface mount components. It is very difficult to physically modify these units.

[Randy_R]

The reason it really can't be changed is because of the construction of the IBeam active preamp. This is connected via a pc that is populated with surface mount components. It is very difficult to physically modify these units.

ronmac

I read into the thread that the question was which connectors on a stereo jack to the external world to use. In which case, the only thing being modded might be which of three connectors to use.

I must have missed that the origonal poster had active electronics in the jack.

I'll delete my prior reply...  :UND>

[ronmac]

It's a shame really that you can't do that. The answer is to use a quality insert cable (Y cable with a single stereo plug that connects to the guitar, and two seperate mono plugs that each carry one of the seperate PU outputs).

If your guitar shop doesn't carry them you could try looking in a pro audio store. I like the Digiflex Broadcast series. They use Canare star quad cable, fitted with Neutrik connectors, that is very flexible, durable and quiet.

[Randy_R]

The more I think about things like this, the more convinced I become that going with passive internal components to an external preamp is the best way to go. keep it simple inside the guitar.

[mrrinse]

Thanks guys.
Pickup now installed.
:) Great improvement in tone and feedback resistance using both pickups together.
Having completed the install, it became clear why it has to be wired this way - see above (PCB).
Dan