Do Onboard Electronics Compromise the Unplugged Tone?

[SteveM]

For those who have heard Larrivee's with the onboard electronics installed and not installed, do you hear a difference in the response/tone of the guitar?

I'm about to purchase a L-05 or L-05E and am beginning to be concerned about the possible effect of the onboard electronics impacting the unplugged tone if I went with the L-05E.  Dunno if it's a non-issue, however.

Thanks,
Steve

[Tycho]

I think it's more of an aesthetic issue for some people. 

I dunno, maybe I'd feel differently if I had Eric Johnson's ears!

[ronmac]

Non issue. Even EJ would have trouble distinguishing the difference.

[sixpickn]

Non issue. Even EJ would have trouble distinguishing the difference.

A guy I work with ran sound for EJ waaaayyyyy back when he was an unknown club act - I was there.  I know from his soundcheck experience that EJ could hear the difference between and Energizer and Duracell 9V battery.  Probably just more voltage/headroom, but still . . .

There are those who believe that under-saddle transducers rob some of the acoustic energy as it makes its way to the bridge and top.  ymmv.

[philster]

I think the key word in your question is "compromise".  It changes the unplugged tone.  It would have to wouldn't it?  Whether you are changing the reflective surfaces on the inside, or adding weight or stiffening certain surfaces.  What you are really asking is does it make the unplugged sound worse, and the answer to that is almost always no.  Is the change something you could hear?  I have people claim they can hear all kinds of different things.  I really don't, and one of my guitars has an old Dearmond sound hole pickup from the sixties that weighs about a pound ^_^  Heck, look at the huge name folks who still bolt on a sunrise pickup, and don't take it out when playing unplugged.  Michael hedges had air traffic control inside his guitar, with at least three systems he would switch back and forth from and when I heard him play unplugged he still had a great sound coming out of his seventies martin.  Aren't they supposed to suck? :rolleyes:

[fitness1]

I like to keep it simple inside the box....the Baggs passive I-beams have a very limited amount of wiring compared to active systems.....just less to rattle and buzz if something moves around and gets too close to the side or top of the instrument (which can happen pretty easily)   

[Casino_Phil]

I was concerned about the same thing but if there is a difference I don't think it's audibly discernible.  Certainly the convenience of plugging straight in in a busy live situation wins me over but even with that factor to one side I don't think having an on-board pre-amp really affects the sound. 

[solarbean]

If a UST is not installed properly, it will have a detrimental effect. Plugged and unplugged. It can affect volume and tone. However, if done right, it is difficult for me to hear a difference. For UST's, the most important thing is to ensure that the saddle is ground flat.

For magnetic and button pickups, I suppose they could affect the response, but not in a noticeable way. It would probably have less effect than all those other environmental efects (background noise, talking, distance, etc etc).

[roknroll]

no.

[SteveM]

Thanks for the responses, the consensus seems to be "no".  My concern was more with the piece of the body cutout (ie, not wood) vs the wires, transducers, etc.  But it's good to hear that it makes little to no differnece.

Methinks it's gonna be the L-05E then.   :GRN>

[solarbean]

Good idea. Look at it this way: if it sounds less than optimal, rip out the preamp/blender thingie and you have a nice sound-port! :GRN>

[mazareth]

I have and L-03E with the barndoor. I don't hear a difference, though I'm sure there is some small effect. Think about which parts of the guitar body vibrate the most when you play a chord. It's mostly the top and then the back. The sides are held in place by the top and back and barely move...

[Randy_R]

However an Under Saddle Transducer is in the exact spot where most vibrations are transmitted from the saddle to the bridge, which is the most critical place for tone.

Also, any extra mass added to the top is going to affect the vibrations and subsequent sound.

From an engineering perspective, a microphone pickup attached to the heel block (with no internal battery) is probably the least instrusive system.

[ducktrapper]

If you can tell the difference, you're in the wrong business. You should be the chief engineer at a major studio. Hey some makers, are putting sound ports in their guitars. If I open the barn door will it improve the sound?

[norcal99]

If installing an UST or any pickup with wiring for that matter, just make sure you run the wires along the scalloped bracing on the edge touching the back. If ANYTHING touches the top, you'll notice a deterioration in sound. I had the problem when installing my LR Baggs element. I re-ran all the wires along the scalloped bracing and voila, back to the natural sound.

[Randy_R]

If you can tell the difference, you're in the wrong business. You should be the chief engineer at a major studio. Hey some makers, are putting sound ports in their guitars. If I open the barn door will it improve the sound?

I know. Al Petteway played a gig with his wife Amy at a nearby venue. He was playing his Rainsong with the electronics removed and the hole left open where the barndoor used to be. If I could make ANY guitar sound 1/10th as good I'd be very pleased with myself..  :UND>

Look at all the noise people make on this forum about how much better one kind of bridge pins or nut material made their guitar sound.. I got to believe that having electronics, UST, and wires running around have LOTS more impact on the acoustic sound of most guitars. Thats my story, and I'm sticking to it....  :rolleyes: