Short scale neck on a standard L body?

[EvanRS16]

Has anyone ever seen/played/owned an otherwise "standard spec" Larrivee L or LV body guitar (i.e. full size, 6-string, 14-fret) with a custom short scale (~24.9") neck?

I know short scale Larrivee guitars are generally rare, aside from the P and T models. My limited searches have turned up some short scale examples of the smaller LS body (the LSV-11 and a few rare custom or limited run LS models), as well as the LV-05 12-string short scale model I've seen on their website recently. But I haven't come across any L or LV 6-string short scale models or custom builds.

If you have (pics if you got 'em!), what did you think of the tone and feel, especially compared to a long scale L if you've tried both?

I own a 2012 L-05E (bought new in 2013) and a 2019 Martin Custom Shop D-18 Short Scale (bought used in 2020), and I often wish I could combine the two. I still prefer the tone and size/shape of my Larrivee, and it's more versatile for alternate tunings and capo use, but for certain chord shapes and stretches (small hands) and general noodling in standard tuning, the short scale neck on the Martin is easier to play.

I've been thinking about pursuing a custom order, but I'm unsure how the L will do with the lower tension. I'm somewhat familiar with the long/short scale differences on the Martin OM/000 and Dreadnought bodies, but the Larrivee L's are quite different. And of course there's the wait... any idea how long a custom order could take with the current situation, maybe a year?

Thanks for any feedback! Long time infrequent reader but only my second time posting, so...     

[B0WIE]

I've not, but short scale changes are pretty predictable. You get less string tension, and the tone becomes a little 'rounder'. Not quite as crisp, and less going on in the highs and lows compared to a standard scale. Both are good, depending what you're after.

[eded]

I've not, but short scale changes are pretty predictable. You get less string tension, and the tone becomes a little 'rounder'. Not quite as crisp, and less going on in the highs and lows compared to a standard scale. Both are good, depending what you're after.

Assuming string gauges stay the same.

Mediums on a 24" scale are nearly identical tension to lights on a 25.5" scale.  It's important to remember that scale length is only one of the variables. 

Ed

[B0WIE]

Assuming string gauges stay the same.

Mediums on a 24" scale are nearly identical tension to lights on a 25.5" scale.  It's important to remember that scale length is only one of the variables.  

Ed

Sure, but I'm speaking, apples to apples. Also, thicker strings do not sound the same so it's not a parallel move.

[Mikeymac]

Good comments above.

I was also thinking along these lines: if you want to get a sense for what it would be like, tune your Larrivee to Eb with the strings you would normally use, then put a capo on the 1st fret. While it won't be exact, it will give you an approximation of the tone and feel of a short scale (I believe Larrivee does 24.75" for custom short scale length - the cost of custom work can be found on their website).

You could check with Larrivee directly or through a dealer to see how long a custom might take, but I'd suspect around 6 months max right now; I'd think they'd put a custom order in line pretty quickly to get it started.

[eded]

Sure, but I'm speaking, apples to apples. Also, thicker strings do not sound the same so it's not a parallel move.

Kind of...  apples to apples doesn't really apply.  Multiple variables...  thickness, pitch, and tension.  Physics.  Change any one and the others change as a result. Change two and it's possible to closely duplicate the third.  Of course, you go moving the bridge (which a shortened scale and same body would do) and everything changes.

Ed

[B0WIE]

Kind of...  apples to apples doesn't really apply.  Multiple variables...  thickness, pitch, and tension.  Physics.  Change any one and the others change as a result. Change two and it's possible to closely duplicate the third.  Of course, you go moving the bridge (which a shortened scale and same body would do) and everything changes.

Ed

?? He was asking what to expect when going to a shorter scale. He got some good responses.

You're correct about variables creating other changes but I don't know what relevance that has to my post. If I said something incorrect feel free to point it out.

[B0WIE]

Good comments above.

I was also thinking along these lines: if you want to get a sense for what it would be like, tune your Larrivee to Eb with the strings you would normally use, then put a capo on the 1st fret. While it won't be exact, it will give you an approximation of the tone and feel of a short scale

Good post. Like you said, it doesn't replicate it, but it does give you an idea of what direction a shorter scale is going to take you in.

[EvanRS16]

Thanks for the replies so far!

I have actually tried the tune down half step + capo 1st fret experiment a few times before on my L-05E, and at least on my particular instrument, all else being equal setup wise (with uncoated Martin PB light strings... I've tried many others and always come back to these), it sounds unpleasantly dull and lifeless to me. I know this is equivalent to slightly under 24" scale length compared to 24.75", but still. I also tried a pack of Santa Cruz Low Tension Parabolic strings in standard tuning, with disappointing results as well. But in standard tuning with my usual strings, it sounds marvelous.

The short scale Martins I've owned (a 000-18 and my current D-18 Custom) have still sounded very lively, with the predictable trade offs in tone and sustain from a long scale OM or standard D-18. They even take to Eb tuning pretty well.

Hence, my concern over whether the L would lose some of its "magic" in short scale, perhaps more so than other bodies, and my interest in hearing feedback from any actual previous L short scale custom builds, if there are any out there.

[eded]

?? He was asking what to expect when going to a shorter scale. He got some good responses.

You're correct about variables creating other changes but I don't know what relevance that has to my post. If I said something incorrect feel free to point it out.

Sorry...  I just think the only thing that can be said outright is that the reach for those open chords will be a bit shorter, and given the same strings the tension will be a little less.  What that'll do to the sound can't be determined...  especially considering the bridge will change placement on the top.  It is more than just a shorter scale.  As someone much smarter than me said, everything is a tone control. 

Not meaning to start an argument...  just stating my thoughts, like you did.

Ed

[Mikeymac]

 
Of course, you go moving the bridge (which a shortened scale and same body would do) and everything changes.

This is important. If you could find a C-03-TE (Tommy Emmanuel Signature) to try, you'd get some idea of what a 12 fret model is like (with the bridge further back, more in the center of the lower bout). It does change the tone, although describing tone gets dicey...

However, if you're getting a short scale, but sticking with a 14 fret body (like a Gibson J-35 or J-45), then the movement of the bridge won't be quite so drastic. Still, everything will change it some.

I've always wondered how much a short scale 14 fret L would sound like a J-45... maybe if you also added the 40 Series Martin style bracing? So many experiments to try, so little money...