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drewnolan82
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« on: May 03, 2005, 02:23:56 AM »

I just had a question, I never really knew much about Bob Dylan...I like a few of his songs...It recently came to my attention, that Bob Dylan is a born again Christian?  That's pretty encouraging to hear...anyone else have an opinion on this?
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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2005, 02:55:17 AM »

OK I'll kick the can....Does it really matter,would you not listin if he was just another heathen. B)  
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2005, 05:30:09 AM »

Yo, man...I didn't mean it like that...I just wanted to know if the dude was a Christian or not.  I didn't know such a simple question could offend someone so deeply...Sorry bro, wasn't taking any personal shots at you.
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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2005, 12:57:56 PM »

No offence taken.I know some many people who won't listen too a lot of artist because there not Christian,yet when they hear the odd piece or read a lyric there amazed.Being a heathen myself,who plays guitar with a pastour I enjoy it all.I've even played Christian tunes.I've also been rename by him,he use to call me the Devil......Now I'm just gods ugly angel.I think its because I cook for his Sunday Bible Study group. :)  
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ducktrapper
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2005, 01:48:18 PM »

Bob Dylan was born of Jewish parents, Abe and Bea Zimmerman. He grew up American. He had his "christian" period from 1979 to about 1982. The albums Slow Train Coming, Saved and Shot of Love contain his most overtly christian material. After that his religion was removed from his sleeve and put back in his pocket (where many preferred it). Regardless of his actual denomination these days, songs like Mr. Tambourine Man, When the Ship Comes In, I Shall Be Released, Father of Night etc. show that he always had a deep spiritual side. I see my light come shining...

Every Grain of Sand by Bob Dylan

       F             Dm/f            F                  Dm/f
In the time of my confession, in the hour of my deepest need
         F             Dm/f            C           Csus4   C
When the pool of tears beneath my feet flood every newborn seed
          F               Dm/f  F                Dm/f
There's a dyin' voice within me reaching out somewhere,
F              Dm/f              C      Csus4 C
Toiling in the danger and in the morals of despair.
      C             C7             F              C
Don't have the inclination to look back on any mistake,
     C             C7                  F                 C     C11
Like Cain, I now behold this chain of events that I must break.
       F           Dm/f         F                Dm/f
In the fury of the moment I can see the Master's hand
   F               Dm/f         C              F
In every leaf that trembles, in every grain of sand.Oh, the flowers of indulgence and the weeds of yesteryear,
Like criminals, they have choked the breath of conscience and good cheer.
The sun beat down upon the steps of time to light the way
To ease the pain of idleness and the memory of decay.
I gaze into the doorway of temptation's angry flame
And every time I pass that way I always hear my name.
Then onward in my journey I come to understand
That every hair is numbered like every grain of sand.
I have gone from rags to riches in the sorrow of the night
In the violence of a summer's dream, in the chill of a wintry light,
In the bitter dance of loneliness fading into space,
In the broken mirror of innocence on each forgotten face.
I hear the ancient footsteps like the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there, other times it's only me.
I am hanging in the balance of a perfect finished plan *)
Like every sparrow falling, like every grain of sand.*) On Shot of Love he sings "of the reality of man".
   
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rustychicken
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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2005, 02:32:05 PM »

nice writing Duck.  most people include those three albums as his trilogy of Christian music. i would probably throw Infidels on there too,,,it's not as overt, but moreso than most of his work. i would agree with Duck, a lot of his earlier work obviously has spiritual leanings, and even (i think) after the "trilogy" this holds true,,,all the way up to Time Out Of Mind and Love and Theft.
i own Shot of Love and Slow Train Coming, and i think they are good albums. some great tunes on them. if you're interested in some straight up gospel/Christian music, i would suggest looking at them. they are much better and more original than what is out there now.
check out some Bruce Cockburn too.  neither one of these guys are too derivative.
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Fredmando
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2005, 02:42:51 PM »

Wow, free tablature on the Larrivee Forum! Thanks, Ducktrapper!
You know, there was a great piece on Dylan on "60 Minutes" a few months back. When asked if he could write the same lyrics today as he did over the past decades, Dylan said he didn't know. When asked where the music and lyrics came from, Dylan said he wasn't sure and called it "magic."
I don't care for all of his music, but that interview really changed my overall opinion of Dylan as a person. I didn't see any flaming ego in the interview.
This guy is spiritual in so many ways that his music hits everyone differently. I am a "recovering Catholic converted from Methodist" so I have my own religion. My Mom taught me how to sit in a church and meditate while the soothing sounds of a Latin Mass flowed into my soul.
That and the steady stream of classical "Angel Label" records that she played on her record player almost 24 a day left a profound affect on me.
Interesting stuff, Folks!
I don't know if I will ever be a member of an actual church again, however. The "organization" in religion can often ruin things--people with good intentions, you know? That is the pessimist in me!
--Fred
 
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mazareth
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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2005, 03:03:15 PM »

Duck beat me to it on the history of Bob's Christian phase. "Infidels" was the next album chronologically after "Shot of Love." IIRC, around the time of "Infidels," Dylan reconnected with Judaism. His son Jacob was barmitzvaed at that time. On the back cover of that album there's a photo of Bob and Jacob on a hill overlooking Jerusalem.

Mark

 
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Mark from Wis.
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drewnolan82
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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2005, 03:07:09 PM »

What does it mean by his Christian trilogy or his Christian era.  If a person is truely born again, then it's not just a short time period in ones life, it's a life long journey.  Man, I don't dog any music, I listen to it all...It's hard to find Christian music that actually has good musicianship to it.  I listen to Pink Floyd's Dark side of the moon all the way to Keith Green.  Good music is like good art, and should be appreciated accordingly.  God gave us the gift of music, and that gift to many talented people.  
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ducktrapper
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« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2005, 03:15:14 PM »

Hey Fred - All the Dylan tab and lyrics you ever wanted. Every song he even thought of doing.  And ... free ...

http://www.dylanchords.com/  
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Fredmando
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« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2005, 04:13:10 PM »

Double Drat, Ducktrapper!  :o
You destroyed the myth! I was thinking you just rattled that all off from memory!
But, I'm still in awe! Don't worry!  :lol:
I like what is being said here, very cool! Seriously, music takes you places that nothing else can...well, that's legal anyway and even then the music is usually safer!  ;) But, really, a certain song or a an artist can make me put my brakes on in life and pause for a moment. It's awesome when a song will make you think about an experience, place or time that is part of your life. That is where the power of people like Dylan come into my life. Bands like the Doobie Brothers, Pink Floyd, The James Gang (there are more) and Elton John will always take me back to the teenage/college years.
This is one of the best places on the forum, you know? I've had read some great stuff on the forum overall, but in this section it like chatting with some old friends over coffee or a beer (or the Scotch that Unclrob claims to savor!)

Awesome thread,

--Fred
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mazareth
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« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2005, 04:17:56 PM »

Hi Drew,

I can't speak for Dylan, but I've known people who were born again and went back to their origanal faiths after a few years. To me life, spirituality, and religion are journey. I'm not theologist, but I sincerely believe there is more than one path to whichever higher power you believe in. Good Luck on your own journey... Peace.

Hi Duck,

Thanks for the link. I think I know how I'll be spending at least part of my evening now!  :D

Mark.
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Mark from Wis.
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ducktrapper
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2005, 04:27:53 PM »

Maz - Yeah it's a great site. I've printed up a lot of it.  
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drewnolan82
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« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2005, 04:30:03 PM »

Christianity isn't a temporary fix for a spiritual seeker.  It's a permanent fix.  Once you personally ask Jesus Christ into your heart, you are born again through Jesus Christ, the holy spirit lives inside of you.  There is nothing you can do to rid of the Holy Spirit once it is inside of you.  Sure, you can backslide from your faith, but the Holy Spirit will be tugging at your heart, and you will be miserable.  You have to ask yourself, was the person truely born again in the first place?  If they sincerly accepted Jesus Christ into their lives, there is no going back.  Eternal security forever and ever.  Chrisitanity isn't a religion, it's a lifestyle, and a personal relationship with God.  
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ducktrapper
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« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2005, 04:30:20 PM »

Quote
Double Drat, Ducktrapper!  :o
You destroyed the myth! I was thinking you just rattled that all off from memory!
But, I'm still in awe! Don't worry!  :lol:
 
--Fred
Fred - Rattle them off? You know I could have but it's so much easier to cut and paste. ;)  
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rustychicken
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« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2005, 04:53:42 PM »

by the time i posted this the whole thread has changed,,,oh well. just consider this a few posts up.:lol:

Drew,
 i usually get snarky when folks refer to it as a 'period' or 'era' or 'trilogy' also,,,but for the sake of reference i sort of fell into that trap to maybe lead you onto some Dylan that you may or may not be familiar with. usually, what folks mean by his "Christian period" are those three albums that are overtly in your face gospel, with few references to anything else, such as romantic love, politics, protest, etc.etc. (although those are covered and framed from a more gospel oriented point of view). i think his earlier and later music (than those three albums) is more poetic and metaphorical in the sense that he is not banging one over the head with a Christian message (which i don't mind, because the guy is a great artist, whether being poetic or a headbanger)  ;)  he's just got a lot of depth, and when truth hits you, it hits you, whether it's Tambourine Man, Every Grain of Sand, Gotta Serve Somebody, Who Killed Davey Moore, etc. etc.

Fredmando, that 60 minutes interview was fascinating. very humble guy with a lot of substance.
i struggle about the church thing myself,,,the new corporate model leaves a lot to be desired. it's hard to be convicted when the message can be about whether to have a Starbucks in the foodcourt,,,there doesn't seem to be much originality coming out of something that should be so life altering and transformative. especially in music (which is what we are talking about). it's out there though. i still have my Curtis Mayfield and Staples Singers!  :)
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drewnolan82
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« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2005, 05:02:46 PM »

I'm only 22, that's why I'm so unfamiliar with Dylan's work.  Whenever I have seen interviews or documentarys of his life, one can only obviously note, that this man was a torn individual.  He seemed to be a constant thinker, very very analytical.  Dylan comes across very mysterious and enigmatic(is that even a word??)  I think he is just a man, much like the rest of us, that is very troubled in his thoughts.
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Fredmando
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« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2005, 05:18:49 PM »

Hey, Rusty thanks for the response. I almost didn't watch that interview. But, when it started I couldn't shut it off. I would recommend that to everyone. It was like watching the documentary on PBS about the Ramones--I couldn't shut the TV off! In the end, though Dylan struck me very differently and I really saw a side of the man I didn't know about. I am interested in trying to read his book soon.
Drew, don't worry about hitching up with Dylan or any artist until they actually grow on you. Like I've said before, I don't seem to do anything the "right way" and it took me a long time to get around to learning to play the guitar. It's almost the same with Dylan. My best friend is a mega fan and I know a lot about Dylan from my friend. But, it wasn't until I saw Dylan in concert that it really cemented it for me. Maybe I listened to the stories and the critics too long about Dylan's lackluster shows and attitude towards the media. But, I read an article in the Uncut Magazine before I saw 60 Minutes and realized I could understand this guy a little better. So, the bottom line is take your time and enjoy being in your 20's! I'm in my 40's and this is just another chapter in the road of music for me. I still have to gain an appreciation for jazz, you know?
--Fred
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ducktrapper
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« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2005, 05:50:18 PM »

Well eras and periods are for critics and not artists. Except maybe Picasso and the blue stuff.
I would no more listen/not listen to an artist because he's a Christian than I would listen/not listen because of their sexual preferences. It's the sounds and the depth of spirit that matters to me.
Drew - Regardless of his public spirituality or retreat from it, Dylan is a very private and often enigmatic person. While he's not about to give away the keys to kingdom, I beleive that you can trust him to be scupulously honest in his craft if nothing else.  
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drewnolan82
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« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2005, 06:03:12 PM »

Ducktrapper-And everyone else that thinks I don't listen to Bob Dylan because of his religious preference...IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME TO LISTEN TO AN ARTIST THAT ISN'T OR IS A CHRISTIAN...there...I said it...I asked a simple question about whether or not he was a Christian...that's it...I guess I should have just taken my own advice before I even posted this thread. God is the only person that truely knows his heart, so I'll leave it at that...I'm not posting in this thread anymore...later
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