Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: its not the guitar really?  (Read 221 times)
headsup
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2726


WWW

Ignore
« on: September 03, 2022, 05:00:49 AM »

Mods will move this to where they think it best,,,

tried some experimental recording recently.
three different Larrivee guitars.

1992 flame maple OM 10, 2004 OM-60 ( both with LR Baggs Element VTC pick up - my personal stage;/ive choice)

and an old L-01 with barn door Fishman system.

same musical passage recorded on all three guitars, no EQ changes-, direct to decent recording platform.

all three were Piezo based.
Knowing full well Piezo systems WILL suffer from attack transience ( quack) when leaned on,
I was careful NOT to lean, or play in a way to allow that to happen..

Yes, miking those three tone woods ( Maple, Rosewood & mahogany) will certainly bring different and varied results to the table.

However, the sonic difference was negligible between the cheap $500 L-01,, compared to the historical fancy OM-!0 and the "old favourite" gigging OM-60.

For those of us who play a lot of shows LIVE and plugged in, regardless of our personal choice of pick up systems,
after my own personal experiment, at the end of the day- getting beyond Snob (guilty) appeal around our specific guitars, tone woods etc,
 well.....  the "best, " warmest" or sweetest sound, doesn't seem to be tone wood, vintage, (what ever) based- we save that for miced up recording or our living room.

Monitor desk, or front of house, Plug & play through DI really ?
its the signal of the pick up system, through the out put jack, through pedals (if applicable), through DI, into house/venue system and engineer..

The beat up old L-01 Fishman barn door( hardly my favourite) system, sound had such small difference to my preferred system ( and guitars) WITH headphones on was a simple reminder ( to me) how easy it is to get caught up in the details and hype of how we/I sometimes take this matter a tad too seriously.

It's all in the mix.

others may disagree ,

But it's so quiet around here, I thought I might stir things up a bit...personal observations only.

Logged

"Senior" member means "old" right?
Like over 50?

Too many guitars to list here.
 Too few brain cells to be bothered with...
unclrob
Donuts?
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 15088




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2022, 06:12:36 PM »

Thanks Kev.

I've used all sorts of systems and ended up going with the active IBeam.At first I used a Baggs pre amp and latter went with just a direct box giving less mid boost which I could never get rid of.Though I prefer a nic you got to do what you got to do.




Keep smilin and keep dancin   
Logged

A REPAIRPERSON,Barefoot Rob gone to a better place
OM03PA
Favorite saying
 OB LA DE OB LA DA,LIFE GOES ON---BRA,It is what it is,You just gotta deal it,
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity, Keith and Barefoot Rob on youtube
Still unclrob
#19
12 people ignoring me,so cool
rpjguitarworks
Call PM me I may be able to help
StringPicker6
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 169




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2022, 07:17:40 PM »

I once heard someone talk about seeing Clapton play a charity show, and he had a brand spanking new Strat going into some small brand new standard fender amp and he sounded JUST LIKE himself. 

So maybe it is mostly the player and not the gear. 
Logged

Larrivee P-03
Larrivee OM-40R
Larrivee LV-03R Vine Special
Fender Vintera Road worn 50's telecaster
B0WIE
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1905




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2022, 11:07:56 PM »

Since an acoustic is built to project, a pickup doesn't capture it's best qualities, and makes most instruments sound similar. When you're plugged in, you're mostly hearing the strings and the neck, with some sympathetic resonances. I think you're right about there being little or no advantage to using something expensive.

 For live, I think as long as your intonation is great, it doesn't really matter what the rest of the guitar is. That's why cheap Takamines took over back in the day. They came out with a better pickup/preamp system.

All this is why I won't plug in an acoustic in the studio unless I absolutely must due to some performance issues (they tap, mumble, shift, etc). Live, it's really about the player and the intonation, IMO.
Logged

D-09 Brazilian w/ Eagle inlay. D-02-12
Used to own and love; SD-50, J70 maple Mermaid, SD60sbt, D03R, LV03E.
headsup
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2726


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2022, 07:13:33 PM »

yes to all,

I'm old enough to remember the first Barcus Berry little wooden rectangular transducers we stuck to the inside of the sound board .
after the old De Armond clip in pick ups.

WE've come a very long way for sure.
I still have purist friends who have a very expensive mic clipped on at just the right angle outside the sound hole of their very expensive guitars.

The Baggs Piezo and it's relatives with the mic inside are rich sounding for sure.

for low gain situations.

yes,

it's all in the fingertips...
Logged

"Senior" member means "old" right?
Like over 50?

Too many guitars to list here.
 Too few brain cells to be bothered with...
headsup
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2726


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2022, 07:15:27 PM »

Since an acoustic is built to project, a pickup doesn't capture it's best qualities, and makes most instruments sound similar. When you're plugged in, you're mostly hearing the strings and the neck, with some sympathetic resonances. I think you're right about there being little or no advantage to using something expensive.

 For live, I think as long as your intonation is great, it doesn't really matter what the rest of the guitar is. That's why cheap Takamines took over back in the day. They came out with a better pickup/preamp system.

All this is why I won't plug in an acoustic in the studio unless I absolutely must due to some performance issues (they tap, mumble, shift, etc). Live, it's really about the player and the intonation, IMO.



The Tks REALLY did take over the market for all the obvious reasons.

How many famous country guys were cutting holes in their vintage Martins & Gibsons and dropping the Tak systems in?
Logged

"Senior" member means "old" right?
Like over 50?

Too many guitars to list here.
 Too few brain cells to be bothered with...
unclrob
Donuts?
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 15088




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2022, 07:41:47 PM »

I also remember the Barcus Berry but do remember hot dots?



Keep smilin and keep 
Logged

A REPAIRPERSON,Barefoot Rob gone to a better place
OM03PA
Favorite saying
 OB LA DE OB LA DA,LIFE GOES ON---BRA,It is what it is,You just gotta deal it,
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity, Keith and Barefoot Rob on youtube
Still unclrob
#19
12 people ignoring me,so cool
rpjguitarworks
Call PM me I may be able to help
ducktrapper
Donuts?
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12931


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2022, 04:10:18 AM »

These days my L-01 and OM-01 are  my go to guitars. What's there to say? Larrivee, apparently, doesn't know how to build a lesser guitar. Okay, okay I play my D-35 a lot too. 
Logged
Mikeymac
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6847




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2022, 04:41:14 PM »


I've used all sorts of systems and ended up going with the active IBeam.


I'm on a similar path - only for me it's the passive I-Beam - mostly because I don't want a battery (or the extra wires & weight) in the guitar. So the passive I-Beam requires some boosting, but it gives a nice even signal to begin with that most of my acoustics really like - I've come to prefer it over the bare naked K&K because it's less boomy in larger bodied guitars.

On a different note - I've seen a lot of guys play pretty low to mid level acoustics live and get great results with them. It's all about the player, their passion, and a good sound set-up.
Logged
Paraclete
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 335




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2022, 06:13:55 AM »

I can’t imagine it’s any one aspect.  A great guitarist can make any guitar sound good….to a point.  But there is a night and day difference between the guitars I first learned on compared to my LSV-11 and Ramirez.  I can tell you though that a bad pickup can make a really good guitar sound dead or tinny. Bad classical strings (or poorly paired to the guitar) can make a $4K classical sound like a cheap student guitar. And the untrained ear of probably most people in the audience probably doesn’t notice any of this anyway!
Logged

2010 LSV-11e
2002 4E Jose Ramirez
1998 S6+folk Seagull
1986 Charvel Model 3A
2001 Fender Jazz bass
1935 A-OO Gibson mandolin
1815 JG Hamm violin
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to: