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Author Topic: First Bad Reverb Experience  (Read 363 times)
Mikeymac
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« on: June 14, 2019, 06:21:41 PM »

The person I sold my Martin OM-21 contacted me after receiving it and claimed that I sent him an unplayable guitar with buzzing frets, a bellied body, a low PLASTIC saddle (Martin doesn't use plastic saddles!) and a few other complaints. I think he just changed his mind after he got the guitar. After refusing his return, he filed a complaint with Paypal, who then put a hold on my money.

So he filed his complaint with Paypal and I filed my response, leaving it to Paypal to decide (as if they could make a rational, informed decision!) who is right!

I've not heard back from Paypal yet, but I sent him back a message through Reverb and told him to return the guitar - when I receive it in the same condition I sent it, I'll refund his money. My biggest concern is that he's been cranking on the truss rod or done who-knows-what else to it, and I'm going to get it back in unplayable condition...then what do I do?

I should've known from the bidding process with this guy, by the language he used, and by questions he asked about the guitar (he didn't know what "bear claw" was) that I was dealing with someone who - while he claims he has 35 years experience with guitars - certainly doesn't know much about acoustics/woods/etc.

This guitar literally had a perfectly straight neck when I sent it to him, with 3/32" clearance under the low E string at the 12th fret - plays beautifully! So I don't know what his problem was...

There, I'm done venting. Thanks for reading. Any advice is certainly welcome as well.

I plan to take this guitar to Hoffmann Guitars in St. Paul next chance I get and have them give it a full physical. I really don't believe there's anything wrong with it - it is within acceptable specs for a 15 year old all solid wood acoustic guitar.
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lkjjr
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2019, 07:22:26 PM »

Sorry to hear this.  I've only had a few transactions on Reverb, and though always "cautiously optimistic," I'm always a bit nervous until everything is completed. While my experiences have all been positive, you just never know when dealing at arms length. No matter the population segment in question, there's always going to be a certain % as.....s in every crowd.

I think it's even more difficult when it comes to the instruments we love so much.  We hope/expect that the folks we are dealing with will appreciate them and show some regard for them too. 

I've seen enough of your posts to know you're a veteran of these wars, and it's pretty obvious you have a good "game plan" in place.  Hope the remaining actions go as quick and painless as possible. 

A piece of philosophy that always seem to serve...
"non illigitimus corborrundum"
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gtrplayer
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2019, 07:56:53 PM »

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.  Just the luck of the draw, meaning you found "him".  There's always one.  Fortunately I've had all great transactions online, Reverb included. I did manage to dodge one prospective buyer at the very last minute who wanted a lengthy "try out" period.  She really wasn't sure if guitar playing was for her, needless to say, I passed.

I wish you luck Mikeymac.  Maybe it's just a case of buyer's remorse and he doesn't want to pay the freight?   I'll be watching with interest and hoping your transaction is resolved satisfactorily.
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JOYCEfromNS
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2019, 08:33:25 PM »

Best of luck Mike!

Its this horror story why I would never sell anything without personal pickup - just me and buy only from very reputable persons and companies
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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2019, 08:52:34 PM »

I sold a guitar thru reverb once and will never do that again.The buyer was an old rock guy and he bought a jazz guitar because he wanted to be a jazz player,I got the guitar back damaged had to fight to get money for the damage.Had a fried who filmed me before shipping and then when I got it back.They finally gave the money to cover the damage plus my shipping cost.Won't buy or sell ever again thru them they are as bad as ebay.
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Silence Dogood
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« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2019, 11:48:11 PM »

With PayPal (and Amazon too, of which I’ve been a seller for a long time) you are guilty till proven innocent.  None of these sites favor the seller but always the buyer.  It’s a bad setup where honest people get screwed and not-so-honest people work the system.   I had a rare box set of CDs once I sold on Amazon.  The lady simply ordered the CDs, burned them on her computer, and then made up some bogus story for Amazon to get her money back.  I might’ve even had to pay shipping both ways, which meant she got the music for free.  Same happens when I sell video games.  Folks will buy them, play and finish them, and then want a refund.  It’s rigged for the dishonest to win, but thankfully in my experience, most people are pretty honest. 

I no longer sell on eBay because they don’t value sellers at all.  Here’s a genuine eBay horror story I heard recently.  A friend’s grown son sells on there to support his young family. He ended up getting some piece of computer equipment for a very low price and planned to flip it.   Seems like he got it in one of those Amazon pallet deals and it was a huge stroke of luck.  The whole Amazon pallet was something like $20 and he sold this one piece on eBay for over $600.   But hear comes the scam. The buyer with a username like scumoftheearth001 buys the piece, then  immediately creates another user account called scumoftheearth0001.  Note the one zero difference.  He emails from the new account and asks for the piece to get shipped to a different address because he will be traveling or something like that.  Later on, the original username says WHERE IS MY STUFF and gets eBay involved.  This is when my friend’s son realizes he’s been had.  The two users are the same guy (totally obvious), but he shipped the product to a different user than the buyer.  So the prick gets the product FOR FREE and my friend’s son loses the product and the $600 that was going to help his young family.  Bad deal!  Be careful out there!
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jpmist
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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2019, 01:09:10 AM »

First, my sympathies. I've bought and sold quite a few Stratocaster and Strat parts plus several Taylor and Larrivee acoustics on eBay and while I can honestly say I've never been screwed over or had a truly bad experience, my nerves were usually shot thruout the entire process.

My take on your buyer is simple buyer's remorse and him weaseling out of the deal. That happens. What I'm here to urge you to do is whenever PayPal does get back to you, do not take their decision as final. I'm pretty sure PayPal doesn't have a human review of any complaint until the 2nd or 3rd bump up the appeal process, so don't accept whatever they finally state until you've spoken to a human and explained your side.

I haven't done Reverb yet, but with my eBay auctions I make a point of informing buyers in my listing that I go way overboard with photos and videos of the guitar's condition prior to packaging and shipping just to avoid the "not as described" way out that buyers can abuse.

Good luck, hope the guitar gets returned in good shape!
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Mikeymac
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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2019, 04:21:18 AM »


My take on your buyer is simple buyer's remorse and him weaseling out of the deal.


This is my take on it, too. I've also been there, but I've not tried to weasel out of a purchase; I've just tried to make the best of the instrument, and move it along if I can't. Chalk it up to experience.


What I'm here to urge you to do is whenever PayPal does get back to you, do not take their decision as final. I'm pretty sure PayPal doesn't have a human review of any complaint until the 2nd or 3rd bump up the appeal process, so don't accept whatever they finally state until you've spoken to a human and explained your side.


Yeah, my concern is that Paypal might try to refund him the full amount before I get the guitar back - don't know if they can do that or not? But he knew what he was doing; he went right past Reverb and filed a complaint with Paypal, who don't know squat about guitars.

He agreed to ship it back today (around 1:00 pm my time / 11:00 am his time in Oregon) but I haven't received notice that he shipped it today... which means he probably won't ship it till Monday... Paypal gave a date of Sunday, June 23rd to finish appealing this case. I'll try to contact them tomorrow to let them know he and I have reached an agreement (I haven't heard anything from them saying he has dismissed his complaint). I want to have the guitar back before that date.

Thanks for all the comments and support here - and putting up with my venting. I've done around 15 sales and purchases on Reverb over the past 3 years, some in the $2K - $2.5K range, many for less, and I've never had a problem (other than not getting a case with a Taylor once - but even though the guitar was new, it wasn't advertised in the Reverb ad with a case, so they didn't have to provide one, even though normally Taylor sold that model with a nice padded gig bag). So I've had pretty good odds so far.

 
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All guitars are left-handed:
1979 L-19 (converted to lefty)
1992 OM-05
2010 RS-4 in Candy Blue
2016 L-05 Custom
B0WIE
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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2019, 09:02:34 PM »

I'm going through an issue on Reverb now, but as the buyer. A seriously expensive instrument with some damage that wasn't disclosed. My first inclination was just to return it but I'm seeing if they'll offer a reasonable, partial refund. I am not even asking the cost of the repairs, just partial.

I'm impressed to see that a reverb moderator got involved within a couple days. Hoping for the best. Would hate to send this thing back but I'll do it if the seller won't make good.
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AZLiberty
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2019, 02:01:18 AM »

Sold a vintage F-212 on the AGF.

Buyer specifically wanted an early 70's F-212.  I warned him that it was close to needing a neck reset and sent lots of pictures and measurements.  Also gave him a low enough price ($800) that after paying for a neck reset he would still have a very nice price for that year Guild.

He gets it, and decides he doens't want it because he thinks the bridge has been shaved.  No evidence the bridge has been shaved, and  Hans's book is clear that Guild used different height bridges back then to dial in the action.  I offer to knock off another $50 bucks or so but he wants to send it back.

Clearly buyers remorse, because replacing the bridge when he had the neck reset would cost less than shipping it back.


Sold another 12.  Again, lots of pictures.  Buyer gets it and is supper happy.  Three days later and it's this guitar is falling apart, the top is sinking and it needs a neck reset.   Eventually I said, ship it back on your dime.   I get the guitar and it's absolutely fine.  Sold it locally a month or so later.

I think people like the IDEA of a 12-string more than actually PLAYING a 12-string. 
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Queequeg
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2019, 11:42:30 AM »

I used to buy & sell on eBay. Never got burned real bad but a couple of less-than-ideal tranx. Finally decided I didn't like the stress of these trades. Now I've paired down significantly and sufficiently that I think I'm done buying and selling.
If you're going to do these internet transactions there's some wisdom north of this post. ^
Take Barefoot Rob and AZLiberty's advice: Pictures of bridge/saddle & string-to-fingerboard at the octave, and video of packing on the way out the door.
And know that no matter what you do, if you continue to trade this way, you can still become embroiled in a bad deal occasionally.
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B0WIE
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2019, 07:54:42 PM »

My own issue I mentioned a couple above got resolved. They asked how much I wanted to be partially refunded, I said $400, Reverb gave me $400 within 24 hours. I am kinda shocked at how well it went. Granted, I provided extremely detailed pics and info supporting my complaint. But, they didn't make me get a repair quote or anything. I don't know if the money came from the seller or Reverb protection but it was a Reverb agent that negotiated with me. Got to say I'm impressed and it gave me some trust in Reverb, which I definitely didn't have much of before.

If you're listing though, cover your tail.
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Mikeymac
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« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2019, 04:42:02 AM »

UPDATE: The buyer has not shipped the guitar back to me yet (at least, he has not sent me any tracking information; he has not communicated with me at all). And Paypal is holding the money in my Paypal account, but they have also not communicated any decision on their part in deciding this, either.

Really suspicious. I told him last Friday morning to ship the guitar back to me. It's now Tuesday night, and no evidence that he has done so. He was so ready to be rid of this guitar, and now it's not shipping. I may need to see if I can get Reverb involved in this - I don't want to get screwed (or get back a damaged guitar).

Ugh...  angry
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All guitars are left-handed:
1979 L-19 (converted to lefty)
1992 OM-05
2010 RS-4 in Candy Blue
2016 L-05 Custom
DaveyO
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« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2019, 04:32:47 PM »

I'm going thru a Reverb deal gone bad myself,
Bought a guitar ,not a larrivee,that had very high unadjustabe
Action,very little saddle and no truss rod adjustment
I am gettin a full refund,Reverb was very good about it,but they did
Ask for pics which I sent them as proof
I'm waiting for a Larrivee now which will probably not
Have that problem,I hope
Dave
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Mikeymac
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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2019, 08:40:36 PM »

Got the guitar back in one piece. He didn't repack it the way it was sent to him (with padding around the headstock inside the case), but thankfully it survived!

It also looks like he tried to use a pair of pliers to pull the saddle out - it's chewed up under and next to the bass E string. I also think he messed with the truss rod, but I haven't had time to readjust that. I did change the strings, though - don't know what he did, but they were dead as doornails (and were almost new when I shipped it to him).

I've checked out everything he claimed was wrong with it (like bellying behind the bridge). It is very similar in the amount of bow it has to all my other acoustics, most of which are 1-4 years old.

I refunded his full amount (which included shipping), but messaged him and told him I'm out over $100 for shipping on this deal. He wrote me a nasty message back saying he was also out money for shipping it back to me because I wasn't honest about the guitar when I answered his questions. Yeah, right. (What an arse...)

Just glad it's back and this nasty adventure is over!   
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All guitars are left-handed:
1979 L-19 (converted to lefty)
1992 OM-05
2010 RS-4 in Candy Blue
2016 L-05 Custom
gtrplayer
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« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2019, 11:52:21 PM »

Glad to hear that the guitar appears to be OK.  It's unfortunate that you got stuck for any shipping however considering the jerk on the other end it could have been worse.  Thank God these people are usually few and far between.  How people treat you is their karma, how you react is yours.
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B0WIE
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« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2019, 12:08:09 AM »

Sounds like the buyer knew "just enough to be dangerous". These are the worst. He probably didn't know what he was buying and then figured "something must be wrong" when it didn't sound how he imagined. Glad the guitar seems ok.

My recent situation was the opposite in that I REALLY wanted the guitar. It was just magical. Built by one of the most respected master builders in Spain and I knew I'd never get another chance to get one in my price range. I just couldn't like with paying that much for something that wasn't as described so when Reverb made good for the damage, I was so relieved because this is the nicest instrument I've ever owned.
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D-09 Brazilian w/ Eagle inlay. D-02-12
Used to own and love; SD-50, J70 maple Mermaid, SD60sbt, D03R, LV03E.
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