Larrivee fretwork

Started by Podicle, January 25, 2019, 06:05:56 PM

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A couple of weeks ago I bought my third Larrivee. The first was an electric RS4, gold top with Lollards P-90s, that I bought 8-9 years ago 2nd hand from Elderley (I live in Australia, so required international shipping etc). Glorious guitar, impeccable finish and fret work etc. My third Larrivee, the one I bought a couple of weeks ago, is a NOS D09 (2008). It's fantastic, with nice fret work (8/10), but the nut cut a touch low. I'll get my guy to set it up next week and smooth the fret ends slightly.

Onto the second Larrivee. I bought this a year or so ago and it's a 2003 SD-50 that I bought NOS. The second I played it I knew I had to have it. It was light and exceedingly resonant: the notes exploded from it like no other acoustic I've played. The fret work on it, however, was atrocious. Fret ends were lifted, numerous frets had started popping, the bevel put onto the fret ends was almost vertical etc. Now I know that it has moved around various shops as they have gone out of business, but in the sub-tropics here we tend not to have the issues I read about from cooler climes, and none of my 20 other guitars have had any problems of any sort, despite various storage conditions etc. I just paid a fair wedge of cash to get the fretwork fixed and now it is immaculate, as good as any guitar I've ever played. I did send photos to Larrivee when I bought it, as it was still under warrantee as a new guitar (despite being 15 years old) but they didn't seem too concerned, which is surprising in retrospect as it was impossible for the frets to be level.

Now, with the purchase of my new Larrivee I've been reviewing the guitar and technical forums here back some ways and I see that this is a not uncommon complaint for Larrivees of a certain vintage. So my question is, was there a period where this was a known issue? The disparity between guitar and fret quality was staggering, and this was also noted by the luthier. All my Larrivees are built in the US, btw.

On an interesting note, there was a little pod of 8-9 Larrivees that have moved around here in Queensland as various music shops go under. An optimistic distributor must have bought them a decade or so ago, but as they have almost no brand recognition here they have been getting sold at very sweet prices. The D09 I bought a couple of weeks ago was actually my second pick at a different shop when I bought my SD50 a year ago. I tracked it and have made various offers over the last year before I got it. There is also a vintage cherry RS4 that I've had my sights on. By my reckoning there are only three RS4s and a D05e left, ready for a discerning buyer in Brisbane to pounce.

Quote from: Podicle on January 25, 2019, 06:05:56 PM

I've been reviewing the guitar and technical forums here back some ways and I see that this is a not uncommon complaint for Larrivees of a certain vintage. So my question is, was there a period where this was a known issue? The disparity between guitar and fret quality was staggering, and this was also noted by the luthier. All my Larrivees are built in the US, btw.


Could you link or reference where you are seeing this "not uncommon" so that would mean common issue during a specific period, as I am unaware.

Further could you clarify what NOS means to you? As I read your post you have bought  a Larrivee acoustic with fret issues. The guitar was > 15 years old but NOS from the dealer(s) unclear how many sellers offered the guitar over its lifetime. At purchase you notice the issue and still buy it. An issue that commonly arises in all makes of guitars subjected to improper storage. Regardless, you purchase the guitar and are silent on your interaction with the dealer on the issue only implying you got the guitar for a killer price. Not being that familiar with your country and its climate I'd be most surprised to hear that guitars of other manufacturers never developed fret issues from improper storage. Is there such a place on earth?

Am I missing something here? It seems you are throwing out a hail-mary pass, hoping that there was a fret issue with Larrivee guitars in the 2000's with the hope that the manufacturer would compensate you further for what seems the dealer you purchased from already did. We would call that double-dipping here in Canada.

And btw your guitars being built in the US only tell me that they were manufactured sometime after August 2001 - there is absolutely no difference in quality in US vs Canada build.

Could it have been a guitar that had fret issues from the get-go, yeah maybe - every manufacturer makes an off-guitar, but in the circumstance you provide would it be reasonable to attempt to put the issue onto the manufacturer..... I think deep-down you know the answer to that.

:cheers
Larrivee Electrics - My Dream then and Now!!!!!<br /><br />Forum IV     00-03MT       #4      (Treasured)

No matter how experienced the player/guitar owner might be and certainly with used guitars, when it comes to these issues, I immediately suspect humidity problems either now or at some point in the past. Problems which are unfortunately quite common, as well. Just sayin'. On a different but similar issue, I've had a guitar crack when I was sure I was keeping the room at 45%. I didn't occur to me that I had it hanging on an outside, poorly insulated wall that was sucking the moisture out of it.   :beer

 

I think fretwork hasn't been their strongest point. Both my SDs could have been better. But, at the price point, Larrivee fret work is by no means bad.
To me it seems the main problem is that you bought a 15 year old guitar and expected everything to be as it was in '03. Woods do mature and you're talking about an area that is under tension (the neck) with a lot of individually glued pieces. It's not unsurprising at all that it might need a leveling after 15 years.

I hope all is well now and that you're able to enjoy your guitar.
D-09 Brazilian w/ Eagle inlay. D-02-12
Used to own and love; SD-50, J70 maple Mermaid, SD60sbt, D03R, LV03E.

Now, with the purchase of my new Larrivee I've been reviewing the guitar and technical forums here back some ways and I see that this is a not uncommon complaint for Larrivees of a certain vintage. So my question is, was there a period where this was a known issue? The disparity between guitar and fret quality was staggering, and this was also noted by the luthier. All my Larrivees are built in the US, btw.

Hey, welcome to the Forum! I think you've kinda overestimated the type of knowledge you're looking for here. We're mostly fanboys and girls here happy with our wonderful Larrivee guitars. The guys who might have grumbled about bad fretwork 10-15 years ago are not here anymore, unsurprisingly.

But to your question, about 5 years ago I recall a conversation with Marty, the owner of Wildwood guitars where he mentioned that there was a period of time where Larrivee frets were floating up and suggested it was due to Larrivee's factory technique of not glueing them down, just hammering them in. I've no idea if any of that is true, but if you wanna take a stab at that here's their website http://www.wildwoodmusic.com

Like other's I gotta question what exactly is a NOS guitar? Is that a marketing thing in Australia? For a guitar to languish in someone's inventory for more than 5 years is a dealer not trying hard enough IMHO. I'd especially consider a "NOS" 15 year old guitar as a used guitar and bid a price accordingly, which I suspect and hope you did. On the bright side of that coin is the fact that a 15 year old guitar will likely be already opened up in the sense that the finish has shrunken leaving nice washboard ridges on your finish and an improved tone. Does your SD have those?

Regardless of what went down in the past, the Larrivees I have are all recent <5-6 year vintages and the frets are all just peachy, none have lifted or popped up.

Larrivee OO-05 • Larrivee OOV-03 SS • Larrivee OO-44  • Taylor 322ce • Strat • Soundcloud https://soundcloud.com/jpmist

To respond to some of these queries:
- By NOS I mean the guitar is sold as new with full warrantee (as confirmed by Larrivee) but is old stock. On an acoustic, I consider this an advantage. It has the requisite finish sinking etc of a guitar this age.

- I tried to be clear that the fret issues were not the usual edges you get from the wood drying, but included seating and shaping. None of the numerous other guitars I own had problems anything like this (including the one and only guitar I've refretted in my life!) thus my original post.

- I never sought any kind of recompense from Larrivee for the work. I had originally sought advice about a potential crack a year ago when I purchased the guitar and mentioned the frets out of interest. I've never contacted them to claim this as a warranty item nor thought of doing so, and I'm not sure where this was implied in my original post. We would call that 'putting words in one's mouth' here in Australia.  :bgrin:

- I've just had a few weeks off from work on holidays and was at the beach for a week (It's summer here). Unfortunately, I damaged my back just before we left and spent most of my time immobile in a chair, which is why I have read all 70-odd pages of the technical forum and many of the 400-odd pages of the guitar forum on this site. Despite ~80% of the content being endless repetition of the same few topics (strings, picks, endpins, tuners and tonewoods), it was interesting reading. Issues with frets seemed to be a reasonably common topic back some years. I've also read a review from 2003 of an SD50 where the poster claims it has the best fretwork he has seen, so I understand the inherently variable nature of guitar manufacturing.

Anyway, my original post was a genuine query to try and explain an anomaly. The guitar is now near perfect. The new D-09 will go in for my usual post-purchase setup next week, but apart from a low nut I'm assuming little other work will be needed.

I hope your back recovers soon! I'm currently rehabbing a neck issue and not being able to play as much as I like is killing me! Can't wait to got back to an hour a day of playing again.
D-09 Brazilian w/ Eagle inlay. D-02-12
Used to own and love; SD-50, J70 maple Mermaid, SD60sbt, D03R, LV03E.

The back unfortunately took the exact duration I was at the beach to recover. I injured it the day before we left and it started improving the afternoon I got back. :angry:

Quote from: Podicle on January 26, 2019, 04:08:16 PM
- I've just had a few weeks off from work on holidays and was at the beach for a week (It's summer here). Unfortunately, I damaged my back just before we left and spent most of my time immobile in a chair, which is why I have read all 70-odd pages of the technical forum and many of the 400-odd pages of the guitar forum on this site. Despite ~80% of the content being endless repetition of the same few topics (strings, picks, endpins, tuners and tonewoods), it was interesting reading. Issues with frets seemed to be a reasonably common topic back some years. I've also read a review from 2003 of an SD50 where the poster claims it has the best fretwork he has seen, so I understand the inherently variable nature of guitar manufacturing.

Anyway, my original post was a genuine query to try and explain an anomaly. The guitar is now near perfect. The new D-09 will go in for my usual post-purchase setup next week, but apart from a low nut I'm assuming little other work will be needed.

I had to read that part about reading 400 pages of forum posts before it sunk in. You are a man after my own obsessive-compusive heart  :thumbsup  I feel bad for you that a bad back ruined your vacation, but then surfing Larrivee forum posts under a beach umbrella with the sounds of the shore sounds pretty damn good to me right about now.

Somewhere in all your reading you no doubt stumbled on the Forum offerings that used dealers to consummate the orders and shipments. The guy for the Forum IV just recently went out of business, but am sure he and Marty @Wildwood can fill you in on the history of Larrivee fret flaws if you still feel like going down that rabbit hole again. You could also check with LA Guitars as the owner used to be a big Larrivee dealer as well.

Best of luck with your nice guitars and if the occasion arises be sure to try out an OO sized Larrivee one of these days, they might pleasantly surprise you!

:beer ADVIL!
Larrivee OO-05 • Larrivee OOV-03 SS • Larrivee OO-44  • Taylor 322ce • Strat • Soundcloud https://soundcloud.com/jpmist

Thanks for the advice. To get an OO Larrivee I'm going to need a distributor in Oz to buy one and then sell it to me at a blowout price in 10 years. I'd also love to try an L series.

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