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tulk1
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« on: October 17, 2017, 12:27:40 AM »

For acoustic I play an L-03E. My singer sports an OMV-05E. On occasion we will play some marathon acoustic shows. Sorta like this past weekend. 2 completely acoustic shows, starting at 11a, ended up somewhere around 6p.  Now, I love my L-03e, really do. But playing leads (same ones I play when we do electric sets) for 6 hours my hands and wrist were shot. crying And that is with 11's. I'm wondering, is there a Larrivee acoustic that just plays easier right out of the box? I've had my L set up, it sounds great if a bit on the quiet side. And I figure, after this past weekend it's a good excuse to go L-hunting! Any opinions on that?
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2017, 12:12:24 PM »

With the exception of the D's, for me,  they all "play" the same
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2017, 01:25:24 PM »

With the exception of the D's, for me,  they all "play" the same
Okie doke. Fair enough. : I was just wondering, tho', if the short scales "fingered" any easier than the long scale. Guess not. So, what's up with the D's?

You know what I really want, don't you? A Larrivee acoustic that sounds like a Larrivee acoustic, but plays as easily as my Larrivee electrics! Is that too much to ask? 

And just because you answered .......... 
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2017, 01:54:29 PM »

Okie doke. Fair enough. : I was just wondering, tho', if the short scales "fingered" any easier than the long scale. Guess not. So, what's up with the D's?

You know what I really want, don't you? A Larrivee acoustic that sounds like a Larrivee acoustic, but plays as easily as my Larrivee electrics! Is that too much to ask? 

And just because you answered .......... 
You're correct. A short scale has less string tension on the neck than the standard 25.5 scale length.
.010-.047 = 131 lbs
.011-.052 = 147lbs
.012-.053 = 158 lbs
Changing to a short scale neck, you'll likely experience the feel in tension as very similar to moving to the next lighter set of strings.
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George
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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2017, 01:57:56 PM »

For acoustic I play an L-03E. My singer sports an OMV-05E. On occasion we will play some marathon acoustic shows. Sorta like this past weekend. 2 completely acoustic shows, starting at 11a, ended up somewhere around 6p.  Now, I love my L-03e, really do. But playing leads (same ones I play when we do electric sets) for 6 hours my hands and wrist were shot. crying And that is with 11's. I'm wondering, is there a Larrivee acoustic that just plays easier right out of the box? I've had my L set up, it sounds great if a bit on the quiet side. And I figure, after this past weekend it's a good excuse to go L-hunting! Any opinions on that?

It sounds to me like what you want is an easy playing, but louder, Larrivee Acoustic?  The best way to find a louder one is to try out many, many, different ones until you discover one that has the volume cast you need for acoustic gigs.  Then just take it to the best setup man you can find, most can make most guitars easy to play...

Just my two cents...
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tulk1
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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2017, 02:50:17 PM »

It sounds to me like what you want is an easy playing, but louder, Larrivee Acoustic?  The best way to find a louder one is to try out many, many, different ones until you discover one that has the volume cast you need for acoustic gigs.  Then just take it to the best setup man you can find, most can make most guitars easy to play...

Just my two cents...
Yeah, playing them until you find one you like is always the standard. Assuming you can find any to play. Which is generally not as easy to do as to say. No dealers within about 100 miles or so from here. And they have a Parlor, maybe a Dread. But no one really stocking many L's in this area. And believe me, if we had a major dealer in the area I'd be camped out in the store until I found another one I liked.

You're correct. A short scale has less string tension on the neck than the standard 25.5 scale length.
.010-.047 = 131 lbs
.011-.052 = 147lbs
.012-.053 = 158 lbs
Changing to a short scale neck, you'll likely experience the feel in tension as very similar to moving to the next lighter set of strings.
That's an interesting chart. And a big difference between 10's and 12's. Didn't realize that.
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Kenny

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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2017, 02:14:17 AM »

Okie doke. Fair enough. : I was just wondering, tho', if the short scales "fingered" any easier than the long scale. Guess not. So, what's up with the D's?

You know what I really want, don't you? A Larrivee acoustic that sounds like a Larrivee acoustic, but plays as easily as my Larrivee electrics! Is that too much to ask? 

And just because you answered .......... 

I can't comment to the tension differences.  I can tell you that there is a noticeable difference between my friend's C-10 and my short scale LSV-11.  Putting custom light .11s (D'addario EJ26) on that short scale made it even more comfortable.  But I wouldn't say that it's easier to play...just different.  Is radius something that is bothering you?  I know that some people have more difficulty with the very flat fretboard radius of a Larrivée.  It makes it more comfortable for me, but I started on classical.  But it's just a thought as to playability.
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2017, 02:58:44 AM »

I can't comment to the tension differences.  I can tell you that there is a noticeable difference between my friend's C-10 and my short scale LSV-11.  Putting custom light .11s (D'addario EJ26) on that short scale made it even more comfortable.  But I wouldn't say that it's easier to play...just different.  Is radius something that is bothering you?  I know that some people have more difficulty with the very flat fretboard radius of a Larrivée.  It makes it more comfortable for me, but I started on classical.  But it's just a thought as to playability.
Radius is an issue for me. I think Gibson makes the best for less fatigue. But for some reason my D-02 is the easiest of my Larrivee models. I can play it with the least problems to my fretting hand for longer periods.
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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2017, 05:32:38 AM »

I think I would have aches in my hand after playing 6 hours straight no matter what guitar I played.  If you get a chance, try a Rosewood L-model for more volume.
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tulk1
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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 02:18:08 PM »

Is the radius on the acoustics different than on the electrics? Never really thought about it before.

I have "low tension" strings coming in. Going to give them a try. Also, last night I found a set of Zebra strings lying around. They're supposed to be for both acoustic and electric (ala the T*brand thing). Put them on the L-03. Now THAT was funny. Absolutely NO volume acoustically. But they sound great amplified.  It was just an experiment while waiting for my low tensions to come in. After the outdoor marathon of last weekend with rain & humidity the strings were actually rusted. And those were coated strings (I think). Anyway, new strings tomorrow. Hopefully the Low-Ts will help my aging hands.
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Kenny

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« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2017, 03:05:55 AM »

Is the radius on the acoustics different than on the electrics? Never really thought about it before.


I've never had the opportunity to play a Larrivée electric, so I don't know.  Is the overall thickness of the necks any different?  That can affect your overall hand/finger angle too.  All the solid/semisolid body electrics I've ever played had thinner necks.  My Charvel is possibly the thinnest neck I've ever played, which makes for both speed and comfort (yeah, that 80s speed metal thing).

One other thing...do you do any strengthening exercises for your hands?  Six hours of playing is a lot, regardless of the instrument!
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« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2017, 02:16:35 PM »

You didn't say how often you took a break or switched guitars for this marathon gig or what the venue/room was like. Based on comments in this thread, I would focus on the conditioning, strength and mobility required for 6-7 hours of straight playing and stick with lighter gauge strings if possible.

The easiest guitars for me to play for extended periods of time include my two Martins (OM/000) with low profile necks and my Larrivee Parlor. Both the Parlor and one of the Martins are short scale and all three are strung with light gauge. No way would I play my dread or my L bodied 12 string for more than a couple of hours. With all of the amplification options available, there are plenty of ways to increase volume if that's what you need.

P.S. Your post got me thinking. On a side note, several years ago, my son and I traveled to Dennison University in Ohio to see Bela Fleck who had Bassist Edgar Meyer playing with him in Swasey Chapel and these guys played for about 3 hours with one 15 minute break. After the break, Edgar Meyer came out by himself, uncoupled his upright bass from all amplification and told the audience that during the sound check he discovered that this building had some of the best acoustics he had ever experienced during the sound check. He then proceeded to play a classical Bach solo without amplification that filled the room.
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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2017, 02:41:24 PM »

I think I may have missed the point of what I was trying to say. This guitar has always been hard to play. Even with a good set up and lighter strings. Not really expecting it to play like an electric. But definitely not as stiffly as it does. The 6 hour marathon was just a posting point. Not really the norm. And, yeah, that is what wasted my left hand. But seriously, 6 hours straight on the electric would have done the same. My question was (supposed to be) if there were a model that just inherently played smoother/easier than any of the other Larrivees. It's not really a matter of strength conditioning, I wouldn't think, as much as a guitar that I'd like to play easier.

To that end I spent Saturday playing walls of acoustic guitars. To the point the wife, who's a real trooper and my "sound" expert was tired of it. I played a ton of the T-brand. There were H&D, Collings, Martin (I don't get the attraction), 1 Larrivee, a truck load of E*stmans of course. Only a couple of all the guitars actually played any easier than my L-03E. That was a surprise. And only 2 total that I would have thought of getting to replace the Larrivee. I didn't, and I left them all there. I did, however, come home with an E*stman Octave Mandolin.  Now THAT is tons-o-fun.

The easiest guitars for me to play for extended periods of time include my two Martins (OM/000) with low profile necks and my Larrivee Parlor. Both the Parlor and one of the Martins are short scale and all three are strung with light gauge. No way would I play my dread or my L bodied 12 string for more than a couple of hours. With all of the amplification options available, there are plenty of ways to increase volume if that's what you need.

P.S. Your post got me thinking. On a side note, several years ago, my son and I traveled to Dennison University in Ohio to see Bela Fleck who had Bassist Edgar Meyer playing with him in Swasey Chapel and these guys played for about 3 hours with one 15 minute break. After the break, Edgar Meyer came out by himself, uncoupled his upright bass from all amplification and told the audience that during the sound check he discovered that this building had some of the best acoustics he had ever experienced during the sound check. He then proceeded to play a classical Bach solo without amplification that filled the room.

The OM/000 were the easiest playing from my Saturday trip. A couple of them sounded wonderful. But I don't have that kind of $$ lying around. The Edgar Meyer solo - that must have been amazing! I once saw Dave Mason do a complete acoustic set in our Midland Theater, which has amazing acoustics (old school, pre-amplification type of venue). Something about those intimate settings that just set them apart. 
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Kenny

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« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2017, 10:48:30 PM »

 I've never played a Huss&Dalton, or a Collings that I didn't like. Pretty much the same with the better Martin's.
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« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2017, 10:58:08 PM »

I've never played a Huss&Dalton, or a Collings that I didn't like. Pretty much the same with the better Martin's.
Interesting. The H&D's did absolutely nothing for me. The Collings, on the other hand ... they were inspiring. Played some OMs and Waterloos.
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Kenny

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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2017, 11:01:49 PM »

 Did a tour of H & D, they don't cut any corners, and only produce premium quality guitars.
Lots of hands on by very good craftsmen.  They are one of the best in my view.
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« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2017, 07:31:23 PM »

A couple of thoughts from my experience, for what its worth.  I now have two 12 fret guitars and they are both the most hand friendly guitars I have ever had.  They are not only 12 fret but short scale too which also contributes to the mix (24.9).  That being said, one is custom built by a local luthier of note who does all his work by hand, by himself.  He carved the neck to suit my hands which are small and starting to be arthritic.  The set up is spot on too as this luthier is not only a builder but a well known tech and the two are not always the same.  This all has made this 12 fret short scale guitar my most comfortable guitar to play (it is a 1 3/4 nut) and serendipitously, it is the loudest and sweetest guitar I have ever owned or played.  The latter is partly a function of the 12 fret bridge placement I think.  The cost was not prohibitive and more than worth it, far less than any of the "big name" offerings.
Dave
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« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2017, 08:16:46 PM »

You're correct. A short scale has less string tension on the neck than the standard 25.5 scale length.
.010-.047 = 131 lbs
.011-.052 = 147lbs
.012-.053 = 158 lbs
Changing to a short scale neck, you'll likely experience the feel in tension as very similar to moving to the next lighter set of strings.

Fwiw, mediums on a 24” scale is nearly identical to lights on a 25.5”...  by the numbers and my experience.

IMO, I prefer the short scale (and 12 fret neck joint).  It’s a smaller reach.  Any more, I can’t play long scale 14 fret acoustics for very long.  The ergonomics just don’t work for me.  That said...  if playability, in general, is the goal, I think a really great personalized setup will do more than string weight, scale length, or anything else.

Ed
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« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2017, 10:22:59 PM »

From this past weekend the short scales were definitely easier to play. Couldn't really compare for volume with the current L03E. The Collings were exceptionally nice. One T-Brand was okay. It's something I'll need to explore. Really want to stay Larrivee, tho'. Just my preferred brand.

I've had my L set up. Not sure about personalized. Hmmm ... may take it with me when I take the Octave back for it's set up. Couldn't hurt, for sure.
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Kenny

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« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2017, 05:42:35 PM »

12 fret is definitely something to consider.  While I'm not a fan of the short scale tone, you can lower string tension by tuning down and using a capo if needed (which has a similar effect).  Don't know if it's been mentioned, but a good set up is a must on a Larrivee. Mine were very uncomfortable for me until I really worked the saddle and nut.
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