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Author Topic: an ethical question.  (Read 1419 times)
headsup
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« on: April 04, 2017, 01:31:33 AM »

Recently I saw an auction for various household items, including a set of "French Ivory" old hair brushes, hand mirror etc.

The thought crossed my mind (as a couple of them were damaged) to buy them and re-purpose the ivory for fine nuts and saddles on a couple guitars.

Just an idea, open for discussion.....

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Caleb
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« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2017, 01:38:34 AM »

Well, it seems to me that someone already made something out of the ivory.  You would simply be repurposing it.  If not the items will probably just gather dust till someone comes along and throws them away.  Might as well get some kind of use out of it.  .02
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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2017, 02:30:18 AM »

If you can get them cheap buy them and use the material.
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« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2017, 02:55:20 AM »

Do you think it makes *that* much difference, or is it some fetish thing?

Personally, I'd pass.

Ed
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B0WIE
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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2017, 02:56:33 AM »

I look for things like that all the time. Haven't had much luck finding ivory that is cut in a way that's suitable for guitar saddles though.   Getting nervous because I only have 4 ivory saddle spares left and, to me, they make such a wonderful difference. Kicking myself for not buying more spares when they were cheap and legal.
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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2017, 04:20:36 PM »

Well, it seems to me that someone already made something out of the ivory.  You would simply be repurposing it.  If not the items will probably just gather dust till someone comes along and throws them away.  Might as well get some kind of use out of it.  .02


This ^^^ +1.

The animals are long dead/long gone; because of the passing of time and passage of laws, you're not contributing to any animal extinction or anything. Go for it.
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2017, 11:22:07 PM »

If it can be done, it should be done.
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JOYCEfromNS
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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2017, 12:05:08 AM »

Recently I saw an auction for various household items, including a set of "French Ivory" old hair brushes, hand mirror etc.

The thought crossed my mind (as a couple of them were damaged) to buy them and re-purpose the ivory for fine nuts and saddles on a couple guitars.

Just an idea, open for discussion....

Thought French Ivory was just an old plastic like, man made material - so not sure of the ethical issue   Best to simply stick with tusq  
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B0WIE
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« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2017, 01:12:42 AM »

Thought French Ivory was just an old plastic like, man made material - so not sure of the ethical issue   Best to simply stick with tusq  
Are you sure it's not ivory harvested from French elephants??   
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Strings4Him
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« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2017, 02:52:45 PM »

Use it or lose it.
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« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2017, 04:42:51 PM »

Thought French Ivory was just an old plastic like, man made material - so not sure of the ethical issue   Best to simply stick with tusq  

You're right...  similar to Bakelite and Celluloid.  It hasn't been made for a while,so I guess there's the ethics of repurposing old artifacts.

Ed
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Mikeymac
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« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2017, 10:56:35 PM »

You're right...  similar to Bakelite and Celluloid.  It hasn't been made for a while,so far guess there's the ethics of repurposing old artifacts.

Ed

Just so there's no asbestos in it... you don't want to be sanding and filing away on that stuff!!! 
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headsup
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« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2017, 04:11:39 AM »

well I'm sure learning a few things about "french" Ivory, maybe it's like us Canadians and it speaks french as well?

Anyways, I got so busy i forgot about the auction but a few years back, I donated some funds to ML sons boy scout fund, in return for several high quality bone nuts, saddles, bridge pins, and some other stuff.

I actually din't donate funds, I bought some popcorn for their fund raising campaign, and in return I got some very useful things (as described).

HERES the rub:
When I signed up, and paid with VISA, the company said they couldn't ship to Canada.
 So the shipping address I gave to theM was the Larrivee shop in Oxnard, with instructions to dispense the popcorn equally (as much as possible) to the folks in the shop.

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Queequeg
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« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2017, 06:19:16 PM »

If you can recycle that old ivory, I don't see the ethical problem with it, Kevin.
Now here's something that could really have an impact to the survival of African elephants. 
China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017
China will ban all domestic ivory trade and processing by the end of 2017, a move described by activists as a potential "game changer" for African elephants.

African ivory is highly sought after in China, where it is seen as a status symbol, and prices can reach as high as $1,100 a kg.

"China will gradually stop the processing and sales of ivories for commercial purposes by the end of 2017," the official Xinhua news agency said on Friday, citing a government statement.
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« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2017, 07:16:36 PM »

If you can recycle that old ivory, I don't see the ethical problem with it, Kevin.

If you paid attention to what's been said so far, you'd know that the "French Ivory" being discussed is a man made material...  an early plastic. I didn't know that until someone mentioned it in this thread, but now I do.

Ed
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Queequeg
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« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2017, 07:29:47 PM »

If you paid attention to what's been said so far, you'd know that the "French Ivory" being discussed is a man made material...  an early plastic. I didn't know that until someone mentioned it in this thread, but now I do.

Ed
Thanks, Ed.
Sorry, didn't read the entire thread.
Working here, you know. I shouldn't be messing around on internet forums (is what they tell me).
Like I said, no ethical issues   
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Walkerman
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« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2017, 07:46:30 PM »

The other consideration, though moot now, is whether you plan on traveling across borders with the guitar.
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headsup
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« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2017, 01:29:22 AM »

ok then here we go!
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2002-09-22/news/0209220243_1_ivory-roselyn-gerson-celluloid

however, given the high quality I am wondering even if it could still be used for saddles or top nuts, some of these sets can be found quite cheap at junk shops.
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« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2017, 06:32:23 AM »

Even though it turns out the "French Ivory" is plastic, I think Kevin's topic about the ethics of using re-purposed ivory is worth discussing.

I'm definitely in agreement with those of you who say that there is nothing unethical about re-cycling ivory that has already been made into something in the past.  The damage to the animal, in that case, has already been done.  I see no harm in making it into something useful like guitar parts.

In the past year, I have obtained two complete sets of salvaged piano keys.  The "white" keys were veneered in ivory, and the black keys are solid ebony.  I have removed the ivory veneer pieces with a heat gun and a palette knife.  They came off quite easily.  I assume they were attached with hide glue or something similar.  These thin strips of ivory have all kinds of applications for guitars.  They can be used for inlays, and position markers.  Three or four of them laminated together with water-thin super glue will provide enough material for making 2 or 3 saddle-blanks or several nut blanks.  They also make excellent shims when super-glued to the bottom of an existing bone saddle or nut that isn't tall enough.

I am vehemently against the harvesting of new ivory in any way shape or form, however.
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« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2017, 11:56:59 AM »

Even though it turns out the "French Ivory" is plastic, I think Kevin's topic about the ethics of using re-purposed ivory is worth discussing.

I'm definitely in agreement with those of you who say that there is nothing unethical about re-cycling ivory that has already been made into something in the past.  The damage to the animal, in that case, has already been done.  I see no harm in making it into something useful like guitar parts.

In the past year, I have obtained two complete sets of salvaged piano keys.  The "white" keys were veneered in ivory, and the black keys are solid ebony.  I have removed the ivory veneer pieces with a heat gun and a palette knife.  They came off quite easily.  I assume they were attached with hide glue or something similar.  These thin strips of ivory have all kinds of applications for guitars.  They can be used for inlays, and position markers.  Three or four of them laminated together with water-thin super glue will provide enough material for making 2 or 3 saddle-blanks or several nut blanks.  They also make excellent shims when super-glued to the bottom of an existing bone saddle or nut that isn't tall enough.

I am vehemently against the harvesting of new ivory in any way shape or form, however.

Overall, my question is...  does it make *any* difference?  Especially laminated blocks of it like you propose.  I don't think it being ivory gives it any special properties.  And, I don't think it being old gives it anything over good old bone.

Ed
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