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Author Topic: Neck relief measurement on a 12 fret  (Read 1335 times)
alanscape
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« on: February 14, 2017, 03:55:23 PM »

Please advise on how to measure neck relief on an OM-03s 12 fret silver oak or provide a link.

Many thanks.
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2017, 04:20:52 PM »

Same as a 14 fret...  capo at the 2nd and hold the string down at the 14th, measure at the 7th.

Ed
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George
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2017, 07:59:29 PM »

Ditto, but I was taught to capo at the first fret, same measurement at the seventh fret...  The industry standard is for ~.010-.020 inch.  I like mine pretty flat; .004 or less, when possible.  I use a .001 accuracy depth gauge for this measurement.  I also have a slotted relief gauge steel rule that is good for checking the fretboard flatness itself.
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2017, 09:43:25 PM »

Just play it, if it don't buzz and feels nice, it's right.
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2017, 12:36:01 AM »

Just play it, if it don't buzz and feels nice, it's right.
+1 x100000000000000


I have very little relief on all of my guitars and I do the same on all my clients guitars.I don't measure anything nor do I own the tools to measure.The guitar tells me what it wants and I do as the guitar says.
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2017, 03:11:07 AM »

I don't measure either because each guitar varies in what works best. My better made guitars usually feel best when there's very little relief. My less precisely built guitars tend to benefit from more relief. That's just me though.
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D-02-12
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2017, 06:43:48 AM »

Same as a 14 fret...  capo at the 2nd and hold the string down at the 14th, measure at the 7th.

Ed

On a 12-fret neck if you are using one of the strings as your straight-edge, I would capo at the 1st fret and hold the string down at the 12th fret, not the 14th.  In the area from the body-joint fret to the sound hole there is often a hump which can throw your measurement off.  So whatever fret occurs where the neck joins the body, is the one to use.  On an electric, it is often the 17th fret for example.  I've never heard of putting the capo at the second fret and that doesn't make sense to me.

I would use the D or G string for this measurement.  Use feeler gauges to determine the greatest distance between that string and the top of the middle frets.  The seventh is not always the farthest away.  It could be the 8th or 9th and sometimes even the 6th fret.  The distance that is the greatest is your relief measurement.  Personally, I don't use this method;  I use a precision straight-edge right down the center of the fret-board instead of one of the strings.  But the string method works fine too.

+1 x100000000000000


I have very little relief on all of my guitars and I do the same on all my clients guitars.I don't measure anything nor do I own the tools to measure.The guitar tells me what it wants and I do as the guitar says.

I always measure and try to be as precise as possible.  I want to be able to quantify what I am seeing and feeling and I want to be able to pass that information to my clients.  I want to be able to tell them I brought the relief down from .012 to .006 or whatever when I deliver the guitar after a setup.  That way, if they play it for awhile and decide they would like it lower or higher, I have a reference point to work from.  I also want to be able to compare what a relief setting of a given value feels like from one guitar to the next.  With all the different string gauges and their tensions, scale lengths, etc. I don't think going strictly by feel is precise enough.   I need a reference number to describe what I feel and see.  Perhaps, when I've done as many setups as you have, Rob, I might be able to dispense with the measuring.  One thing I will say is that my customers seem to be impressed when I report all the measurements I achieved after a setup and I think it makes me seem more competent and trustworthy to them.

Knowing the relief value as an actual measured distance, adds one more constant to the equation when adjusting string height, etc.  My theory is the more actual measurements you have of all the parameters, the easier it is to troubleshoot and narrow in on what to adjust to solve an issue.  As part of my setup service, a provide a before and after measurement of the relief, string height above the 1st fret, and string height above the 12th fret.  On an electric, I add the before and after measurements of the string heights above each pickup's pole pieces.  That creates confidence in them and a piece of paper they can take to the next guitar tech if it doesn't happen to be me.
I don't measure either because each guitar varies in what works best. My better made guitars usually feel best when there's very little relief. My less precisely built guitars tend to benefit from more relief. That's just me though.

That's fine, but how do you define "very little" relief compared to "more" relief.  How do you even know that unless you can measure and compare?  You must be taking some kind of "measurement" even if it's only by eyeballing it.  To me, very little relief would be perhaps .004 to .006".  To Rob and you, very little relief might be higher or lower than that and not necessarily the same.

There is no right or wrong way, just different approaches.

 
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2017, 01:39:20 PM »

When I remember
not to look at my fingers
while playing my 12th fret join -03
my neck feel quite some relief.

Wait, what was the question?
 
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2017, 08:02:32 PM »


That's fine, but how do you define "very little" relief compared to "more" relief.  How do you even know that unless you can measure and compare?  You must be taking some kind of "measurement" even if it's only by eyeballing it.  To me, very little relief would be perhaps .004 to .006".  To Rob and you, very little relief might be higher or lower than that and not necessarily the same.

There is no right or wrong way, just different approaches.

 


 I don't use tools to measure relief. I've found it entirely unnecessary. Looking down the neck is usually adequate but I might hold down the first and 12th and tap the string at the 6th to see how much room I'm playing with. Ultimately, it's more about the playability though.  And, that varies from instrument to instrument, even in the same instrument after changing string types. Knowing the numerical value does nothing for me there. Same when I set the action. I go by feel and don't believe that a certain number is relevant. Intonation however, is a science and I'll get those figures as tight as I can.
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« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2017, 06:36:13 AM »

I don't use tools to measure relief. I've found it entirely unnecessary. Looking down the neck is usually adequate but I might hold down the first and 12th and tap the string at the 6th to see how much room I'm playing with. Ultimately, it's more about the playability though.  And, that varies from instrument to instrument, even in the same instrument after changing string types. Knowing the numerical value does nothing for me there. Same when I set the action. I go by feel and don't believe that a certain number is relevant. Intonation however, is a science and I'll get those figures as tight as I can.

I also ultimately adjust those parameters by how it feels and plays, and especially by how my customer wants it to feel and play.  I use the numbers to quantify what I am feeling so I can compare among guitars that are set up to similar measurements.  I also keep records of those measurements so if a client brings a guitar back to me, I know what I set it to last time.  Perhaps the difference between my approach and yours is that I do most of my setups on other people's guitars.
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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2017, 06:33:48 PM »

I also ultimately adjust those parameters by how it feels and plays, and especially by how my customer wants it to feel and play.  I use the numbers to quantify what I am feeling so I can compare among guitars that are set up to similar measurements.  I also keep records of those measurements so if a client brings a guitar back to me, I know what I set it to last time.  Perhaps the difference between my approach and yours is that I do most of my setups on other people's guitars.
This is a fine way of taking care of setups. Record keeping is something I know is best, for me and others.
   My major guitar repairs and modifications are usually posted here on the forum. That is my record keeping, in a way.

   But as far as string setup, I really do it by feel. Of course using a straight edge, holding down a string and sighting the gap, checking for neck twisting, warping, humps etc. But in the end using the "feel" while playing and making sure no buzzes exsist.

    I took three days recently to put an old red lable yamaha back in playing condition. I should have done a thread for that one. I can't even remember all the items I dealt with. Pretty much everthing you can think of. It was for a friend who has owned it going back to th 70's. Just did it to see if I could. He's very happy with it.
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2017, 07:40:26 AM »

Here is an example of the report I provide to clients after setting up their guitars.  In this example, I replaced the saddle and then did a subsequent setup.  I keep these reports on file and they are valuable references to me for future work.  Click on the image to make it big enough to read.
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pingber
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« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2017, 01:13:24 AM »

Ditto, but I was taught to capo at the first fret, same measurement at the seventh fret...  The industry standard is for ~.010-.020 inch.  I like mine pretty flat; .004 or less, when possible.  I use a .001 accuracy depth gauge for this measurement.  I also have a slotted relief gauge steel rule that is good for checking the fretboard flatness itself.
. If you are measuring neck relief, you don’t capo anything.  If you are measuring action, then you capo the first.
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George
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« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2017, 01:47:39 AM »

. If you are measuring neck relief, you don’t capo anything.  If you are measuring action, then you capo the first.

How do you know which way to adjust?  Just sight down the fretboard?  I recommend reading some technical setup articles on alternate methods...
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George
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« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2017, 08:08:09 AM »

. If you are measuring neck relief, you don’t capo anything.  If you are measuring action, then you capo the first.
Huh?  Where are you getting your information?
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"Badges?  We don't need no stinkin' badges."

Became a Shooting Star when I got my 1st guitar.
Back in '66, I was 13 and that was my fix.
Still shooting for stardom after all this time.
If I never make it, I'll still be fine.


 
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