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Author Topic: iRig Acoustic - guitar microphone  (Read 8292 times)
eded
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« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2015, 07:24:57 PM »


My comparison would be to a $200-300 (plus installation, plus pre-amp) guitar pickup. In particular, the rubber band sound that is an apparently beloved feature of every other pickup appears to be absent with the iRig.

My K&K sounds very good and was just about $200 for the pickup and preamp.  I install them myself.  Since it is an external preamp, the cost of the pre is divided between each instrument with a pickup.

But, if you like that one, it's what you should go with.

Ed
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skyline
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« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2015, 02:26:54 AM »

My K&K sounds very good and was just about $200 for the pickup and preamp.

I've been stumbling around the internetz looking for simultaneous pickup/microphone recordings.

There are some where they cut back and forth between pickup and mic, but most do segments with one, then segments with the other - often not playing very similar passages.

Does anyone know of any where they have a stereo split with mic on one channel and pickup on the other?
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rockstar_not
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« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2015, 04:39:51 AM »

For those of you that are thinking that the capsule in this thing would be too tiny for a fidelity recording, consider that most of the handheld recorders praised on this forum such as the Zoom H series and the like use capsules that are quite small, many likely between 1/4 and 1/2"

And just because the body of the mic is big, does not mean it's using a big capsule.  Here's the Blue Snowball mic torn down:
https://youtu.be/cst8G2BCZJI?t=2m35s

Small mic size doesn't necessarily mean inability to capture full audio spectrum.  All of the microphone based pickups that I am aware of for acoustic guitars use tiny capsules.  Even the highly desirable DPA acoustic guitar mic is really tiny.  Maybe even a smaller capsule than this iRig thing:

https://youtu.be/A2_bBIgsH2Q
https://youtu.be/ixdv3mE98j8

I am not suggesting that this iRig competes with the DPA, but merely to point out that the capsule size becomes less important as one gets closer to the source.

In fact the LR Baggs Lyric looks like the capsule size is pretty small.

 
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« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2015, 03:25:36 AM »

iRig on it's way.

Anyone care to offer suggestions for test recordings/playings?
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L07 Shooting Star
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« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2015, 03:46:09 AM »

iRig on it's way.

Anyone care to offer suggestions for test recordings/playings?

A cool comparison would be to find the sound clips for whatever guitar you are planning to test-record with from the forum sound clips here:
 http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=5947.0
and record the same musical piece (or similiar as you can) with the iRig.  I think that would be a legitimate basis for comparison.
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« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2015, 04:21:58 AM »

A cool comparison would be to find the sound clips for whatever guitar you are planning to test-record with from the forum sound clips here:
 http://www.larriveeforum.com/smf/index.php?topic=5947.0
and record the same musical piece (or similiar as you can) with the iRig.  I think that would be a legitimate basis for comparison.

Great idea!

Sadly - I have no real Larrivťes  crying (as in "L" bodies)

But I can readily do that for an OM-03, or an original  P-01, and I can offer a "last Cancuk run" SD-03 to compare to the SD-50 and SD-60 in that list.

Anyone know how those recordings were made? (Thanks to  "Dave at Guitar Adoptions")

Anyone have any particular requests on string sets or reasonable suggestions of microphones for simultaneous recordings?
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L07 Shooting Star
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« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2015, 04:54:28 AM »

Great idea!

Sadly - I have no real Larrivťes  crying (as in "L" bodies)

But I can readily do that for an OM-03, or an original  P-01, and I can offer a "last Cancuk run" SD-03 to compare to the SD-50 and SD-60 in that list.

Anyone know how those recordings were made?

Anyone have any particular requests on string sets or reasonable suggestions of microphones for simultaneous recordings?

I wasn't thinking you would have to replicate them exactly, only as best as you can given the resources you can muster.  My thought was to record the most similar guitar you can with the iRig optimized for the best sound you can get out of it against what is already recorded in those files.  To replicate or even ascertain what strings and mics and other recording conditions were used with those recordings would be daunting to say the least.  And there are so many variables, it would be almost impossible to recreate them anyways.  I wasn't suggesting you go to that length to demonstrate the comparison.

I was simply suggesting those recordings would be a good starting point if you wanted something to compare with.  I can't think of any other recordings that would be better for this purpose.
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Became a Shooting Star when I got my 1st guitar.
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« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2015, 05:11:36 AM »

I was simply suggesting those recordings would be a good starting point if you wanted something to compare with.  I can't think of any other recordings that would be better for this purpose.

Thanks L07 Shooting Star, I was not aware of these recordings. Using these recordings as a base line is a great idea!
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« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2015, 03:47:07 AM »

My thought was to record the most similar guitar you can with the iRig optimized for the best sound you can get out of it against what is already recorded in those files.  To replicate or even ascertain what strings and mics and other recording conditions were used with those recordings would be daunting to say the least. 

Let's assume I can perform similar passages to those recordings.

Which would people prefer as a simultaneous comparison mic - an SM-57 or SM-58?

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L07 Shooting Star
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« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2015, 07:31:31 AM »

Assuming you have a choice, I would go with the SM-57 to record the guitar directly or through a speaker.  Either one will do a fine job though.
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« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2015, 04:04:07 PM »

Assuming you have a choice, I would go with the SM-57 to record the guitar directly or through a speaker.  Either one will do a fine job though.

It will be a direct recording.

My idea was to choose a comparison mike that the largest number of people would be familiar with or have access to.
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« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2016, 05:20:43 AM »

Update?
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« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2016, 01:56:19 AM »

Update?

Sorry to be so long rockstar_not -  I simply havenít had time to make proper A/B mic/iRigAcoustic recordings that Iíd be comfortable presenting to people (Iím workingí on it though)

Meanwhile hereís what Iíve found over a couple of monthís random use:

The mic is not a standalone: it requires a ďdeviceĒ - a fairly current Android or Apple tablet, pod, or phone. Iím running it through an iPad Mini. Apparently Android devices require a specific audio sub-system that is not standard on all Android units.

Mounting the mic and making the connections are easily done. The software (included, free) guides you through calibrating the mic for the instrument. You donít have to calibrate every time, you can save presets. The cable is very thin and plenty long - good for putting guitars down when not playing, but it seems fragile. Itís fiddly to put it in itís storage case (a lot like ear buds), but itsís a breeze to attach and move from instrument to instrument.

Unless youíre an interface psychic, allow yourself time to play around with the ďbuttonsĒ. If youíve used other software, or if youíre so ALM* that youíve actually used recording hardware, youíll find buttons doing things you might not expect. I havenít dug deep into the effects included with the software, but theyíre easy to get at, and well suited to acoustic instruments, with plenty of range, from simple eq and reverbs, through to hard core grunge (looping is available as an add-on).

If youíre recording, the naming/saving/renaming/exporting functions are less than intuitive (especially for anyone who might have used magnetic tape, paper, pencils, or a filing cabinet)

The sound that gets to the recorded track is very good - closer to a stand mounted condenser than a pickup. It has very good rejection of sounds that arenít the guitar, including ignoring bad room acoustics and the occasional background cat. Iíll try it outside on the deck soon (still a bit cool around here)

It doesnít seem to create or accent honks, squawks, or chirps the way most pickups do, and itís just as happy with fingerpicking as it is with a variety of flat picks. If you really want to get nitty, the software letís you store presets that you could fine tune for different styles or guitars. It takes only two touches to change a pre-set. I havenít tried it on a stage or through an amp to see what the feedback control is like.

Iíve used it a lot on an OM-03 and an SD-03, and a little on tenor uke and  twelve string. Sounded great on all of them. Didnít try it with a slide - but my bottle-necking skills are so bad that any test I made would be ďwidely open to interpretationĒ

Assuming it isnít totally feedback prone, or overly wind-sensitive, and you have an appropriate device that youíre willing to use, itís definitely worth considering as a pickup. You can record very clean useable tracks pretty much anywhere with only your guitar, the iRig mic, and your device. No stands, no baffles, no careful positioning, or sitting very still.



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« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2016, 02:23:38 AM »

Thanks for the update - I really would like to try one some time.

-Scott
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« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2016, 08:58:25 PM »

Sorry to be so long rockstar_not -  I simply havenít had time to make proper A/B mic/iRigAcoustic recordings that Iíd be comfortable presenting to people (Iím workingí on it though)

Meanwhile hereís what Iíve found over a couple of monthís random use:

The mic is not a standalone: it requires a ďdeviceĒ - a fairly current Android or Apple tablet, pod, or phone. Iím running it through an iPad Mini. Apparently Android devices require a specific audio sub-system that is not standard on all Android units.

Mounting the mic and making the connections are easily done. The software (included, free) guides you through calibrating the mic for the instrument. You donít have to calibrate every time, you can save presets. The cable is very thin and plenty long - good for putting guitars down when not playing, but it seems fragile. Itís fiddly to put it in itís storage case (a lot like ear buds), but itsís a breeze to attach and move from instrument to instrument.

Unless youíre an interface psychic, allow yourself time to play around with the ďbuttonsĒ. If youíve used other software, or if youíre so ALM* that youíve actually used recording hardware, youíll find buttons doing things you might not expect. I havenít dug deep into the effects included with the software, but theyíre easy to get at, and well suited to acoustic instruments, with plenty of range, from simple eq and reverbs, through to hard core grunge (looping is available as an add-on).

If youíre recording, the naming/saving/renaming/exporting functions are less than intuitive (especially for anyone who might have used magnetic tape, paper, pencils, or a filing cabinet)

The sound that gets to the recorded track is very good - closer to a stand mounted condenser than a pickup. It has very good rejection of sounds that arenít the guitar, including ignoring bad room acoustics and the occasional background cat. Iíll try it outside on the deck soon (still a bit cool around here)

It doesnít seem to create or accent honks, squawks, or chirps the way most pickups do, and itís just as happy with fingerpicking as it is with a variety of flat picks. If you really want to get nitty, the software letís you store presets that you could fine tune for different styles or guitars. It takes only two touches to change a pre-set. I havenít tried it on a stage or through an amp to see what the feedback control is like.

Iíve used it a lot on an OM-03 and an SD-03, and a little on tenor uke and  twelve string. Sounded great on all of them. Didnít try it with a slide - but my bottle-necking skills are so bad that any test I made would be ďwidely open to interpretationĒ

Assuming it isnít totally feedback prone, or overly wind-sensitive, and you have an appropriate device that youíre willing to use, itís definitely worth considering as a pickup. You can record very clean useable tracks pretty much anywhere with only your guitar, the iRig mic, and your device. No stands, no baffles, no careful positioning, or sitting very still.



*ALM - ancient like me

It certainly sounds way more complicated that just plugging in the DPA4099G into the mixer...  My amateur mistake with condenser mics was to try to get good recordings without any unwanted background noise from a large diaphragm condenser.  IMHO it cannot easily be done with large capsule condenser mics.  The very small diaphragm on the dpa4099g has excellent side noise rejection as well as not picking up too much extraneous noise, much like a dynamic mic but with better clarity and headroom.  I try to stay away from computer apps for music anyhow, analog is better in most cases and you can always record it digitally at the end...  Just my two cents worth FWIW...
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« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2016, 10:18:16 PM »

It certainly sounds way more complicated that just plugging in the DPA4099G into the mixer...  My amateur mistake with condenser mics was to try to get good recordings without any unwanted background noise from a large diaphragm condenser.  IMHO it cannot easily be done with large capsule condenser mics.  The very small diaphragm on the dpa4099g has excellent side noise rejection as well as not picking up too much extraneous noise, much like a dynamic mic but with better clarity and headroom.  I try to stay away from computer apps for music anyhow, analog is better in most cases and you can always record it digitally at the end...  Just my two cents worth FWIW...

The DPA is definitely where I'd go if money were no object! I already had an iPad so the $50 for the iRig mic was easy to find. It is possible the feedback supression in the iRig setup could be a factor for live though.

If you have a reasonable space, large diaphraghm is the way to go for recording. If the whole band is acoustic and you have no drummers or bag-pipers, you could probably get away with micing for live amplifictaion, many folks do. But I do suspect from results so far that the iRig will fill the live bill admirably - of course My coreography tends to be pretty limited 
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« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2016, 10:51:24 PM »

I have to admit I haven't been following the thread, but if pickup/mic comparisons with recorded examples are of interest, you can't find a better source than Doug Young's pages.

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptests/

Ed
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« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2016, 10:56:12 PM »

I simply cannot play accurately enough for a large diaphragm to not pick up every noise I make.  I am OCD about trying to get perfect recordings (and not highly effective at that).  I am bad about pick clicks and high spl vocal distortion. Pickups work good, but nothing beats a great quality mic for recording... I have bought and sold many mics over the years and I conclude they are the one best investment you can make in a quality recording setup.  You can spend a ton of money on them too (check out the pricey high end ones at Sound Pure Audio (purely expensive!)).  But you do not have to spend thousands of dollars apiece to get good enough ones for home studio use.  I got lucky and acquired my dpa's for reasonable prices...
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« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2016, 11:09:30 PM »

I have to admit I haven't been following the thread, but if pickup/mic comparisons with recorded examples are of interest, you can't find a better source than Doug Young's pages.
http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptests/.    Ed
That is going to make for some very interesting listening. Thanks Ed!

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« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2016, 12:53:36 AM »

I have to admit I haven't been following the thread, but if pickup/mic comparisons with recorded examples are of interest, you can't find a better source than Doug Young's pages.

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptests/

Ed

Great tip Ed.  You can clearly hear the difference...  Going to take a while to listen to them all, but the ones I favor sound just as good there as they do in real life.
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