Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: A question about strings  (Read 2499 times)
headsup
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2089


WWW

Ignore
« on: July 25, 2015, 07:56:56 PM »

I am reading the information  on a set of D'addario strings.
It's describing their products,

80/20 Bronze-"Deep bottom end, crisp highs for Vintage enthusiasts."

Phosphor bronze-"Ideal balance of volume and projection with long lasting tone"

wanting to know if this is merely advertising/marketing gobbledy goop OR if in fact there is truth to the 80/20 actually having those characteristics or not,
 same with the phosphor, as a rule i haven't used 80/20's much,.

can anyone who might know this stuff- enlighten me on this ?

Thanks in advance
Logged

"Senior" member means "old" right?
Like over 50?

Too many guitars to list here.
 Too few brain cells to be bothered with...
skyline
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 419




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2015, 02:37:09 AM »

One day I'll win a lottery, buy a whole lot of esoteric gear, and hire some serious physics nerds. for now I offer my subjective claims . . .

I've used all manner of phosphor and 80/20 strings on an OM-03, an SD-03, a Godin Aoucsticaster, and a plywood Ami. Coated, and un-coated, various manufacturers.

My impression is that 80/20's don't add bottom so much as reduce mids.

I find un-coated phosphors to be the most predictable.

If I were doing weekly/nightly string changes, I'd stick with uncoated phosphors. 80/20's have a more serious response shift as they age.

For my instruments that don't get played as much, coated strings last longer. 80/20's give a cleaner sound on the plywood Ami, and a better fitting range to fiddle with going through the Godin's pickup.
Logged
gxs3000
Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 22




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2015, 08:00:22 AM »

I think string choice is the single most significant contributor to sound of a single guitar than anything else.  Finding the right strings for a guitar can take a while, and the type I have purchased for one guitar did not sound good on another. I hear the difference between Phosphor and 80/20, and coated and uncoated, but I also hear difference between different vendors of the same gauge and composition.  I have an old Regal that sounded great with Martin Marquis 80/20, but the same strings sounded horrible on my Larrivee P-05. I put Dean Markley's on it and I really like it.   Even if I like a sound, when I get bored I try new string brands.  If I really like something, I try the coated version of the same thing to get a little more life out of the strings, but that usually changes the sound a bit.

Good luck.
G  
Logged
ducktrapper
Donuts?
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 10999




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2015, 12:51:15 PM »

I always say, "Strings? Six new ones." In my experience most, if not all, new strings are fine unless damaged. Whether the ones you use are the perfect match for the guitar and type of playing you do, is something that one does or doesn't obsess about. I bought a bunch of different strings, for a couple dollars a set, at a music store's going out of business sale a couple years ago and have been using them, including Peavey Jack Daniels strings and some no name strings without a problem. How many string manufacturers are there anyway? I've often heard that there are only a few making all these different brands. Anyone know?
In a grocery store, I also prefer most generic items to name brands. Those pennies add up.    
Logged
headsup
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2089


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2015, 02:28:44 PM »

I agree with some of this, not all.
 I have also bought discounted and cheapo strings, usually they aren't very good quality.

As you know i have several guitars and play several gigs a month, so I'm always changing strings, especially in the more humid weather.

dollar for dollar when buying discounted or "cheap" strings, and changing regularly, the Darco kind are as good as the ones that are twice or 4 times the price.

I don't mean to open up the old "best strings for larrivee" debate in any way, more just curious as to the claim on the packaging from my OP.

I would have "though" a brass composite string would tend to sound "brassy" is all, and on a couple of my guitars, I wouldn't mind a bit of a "baasier" sound.

However, I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway whistling
Logged

"Senior" member means "old" right?
Like over 50?

Too many guitars to list here.
 Too few brain cells to be bothered with...
skyline
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 419




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2015, 01:48:17 AM »

Some strings just rot out silly fast, and others sort of decay a bit - then plateau for ever. For me 80/20's seem to go from too bright to dead in record times, coated or not. This seems to apply across brands.

It would be intersting to learn more about the relationship between string make-up and personal chemistry. Any bio-metallurgy PHDs on the forum?
Logged
webberink
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 674




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2015, 06:06:32 PM »

My experience FWIW,
My D-09 sounds great with PB in any brand I have tried and lousey with 80-20 in most brands, the 80-20 sound way too brassy to my ear.
My 0M-09 in walnut sounds good but a little too woody with PB in any brand I have tried.  With 80-20 in any thing I have tried it is magnificent.
My P-03R sounds best with mediums in 80-20.  Any PB I have tried on it have a noted decrease in the Low E response.
My Morgan OM, flamed walnut, sounds best magnificent with PB, pretty good with 80-20's too.
All the above guitars have bone nuts, saddles and pins.  I think this colours the PB-8020 question as I have changed all the larris over to bone over time and have noted a difference.
In summary, in my experience, generally the 80-20's do increase base response and brightness, but this is not always what an individual guitar wants. And then there is always silk and steel or silk and PB .....
Dave
Logged

I love those older Canadian made Larrivees!
Sireel70
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2015, 11:54:28 PM »

Hi Guys - I have a new L02 with recent set up for medium strings (factory). I'm thinking about trying Medium Lights to have a bit more playability (I play mostly fingerstyle). My question is do you think my guitar will need another set up when i restring with Medium Lights? (or Lights?). Love this guitar btw it's a good one :)
Logged
eded
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2038




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2015, 03:42:47 AM »

I take The Luddite approach.  I put strings on and if they sound good, I put them on again.

Ed
Logged
Barefoot Rob
Donuts?
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13992




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2015, 03:55:58 AM »

I've been using 80/20's for years to my ear they tend to sound darker to me like a Tele neck pu slightly rolled off tone which is one of my favorite tone's.PB's always sound overly bright.
Logged

A REPAIRPERSON,Still Unclrob
OM03PA
Favorite saying
 OB LA DE OB LA DA,LIFE GOES ON---BRA,It is what it is,You just gotta deal it,
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity*Eat The Rich*, Keith and Barefoot Rob on youtube
Still unclrob
#19
12 people ignoring me,so cool
www.rpjguitarworks.com
Call PM me I may b
L07 Shooting Star
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3682




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2015, 05:52:04 AM »

Hi Guys - I have a new L02 with recent set up for medium strings (factory). I'm thinking about trying Medium Lights to have a bit more playability (I play mostly fingerstyle). My question is do you think my guitar will need another set up when i restring with Medium Lights? (or Lights?). Love this guitar btw it's a good one :)

In my experience, it's unlikely that going from a medium to medium-light gauge will affect the setup in most cases.  Going from mediums to lights may or may not induce some buzzes.  If that happens, a little tweak to the truss rod will usually correct it.  So much depends on what parameters were used to set it up for the mediums in the first place, and how low the action is with the mediums, currently. 
Logged

"Badges?  We don't need no stinkin' badges."

Became a Shooting Star when I got my 1st guitar.
Back in '66, I was 13 and that was my fix.
Still shooting for stardom after all this time.
If I never make it, I'll still be fine.


 
tuffythepug
Global Moderator
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5341



« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2015, 04:32:14 PM »

I am reading the information  on a set of D'addario strings.
It's describing their products,

80/20 Bronze-"Deep bottom end, crisp highs for Vintage enthusiasts."

Phosphor bronze-"Ideal balance of volume and projection with long lasting tone"

wanting to know if this is merely advertising/marketing gobbledy goop OR if in fact there is truth to the 80/20 actually having those characteristics or not,
 same with the phosphor, as a rule i haven't used 80/20's much,.

can anyone who might know this stuff- enlighten me on this ?

Thanks in advance


The key part of your question is about whether the claims for Phosphor bronze vs. 80/20 are valid or just "advertising gobbledy goop".    The claim that the 80/20 is for "vintage enthusiasts"  is based on the fact that James Taylor, Paul Simon, Neil Young, and all the other artists were using this type of string when they made most of their early iconic recordings.    So if you want that sound you need to use the 80/20s is the obvious implication.   Of course, it helps to also have that talent in one's fingers and use the same instruments, but most of us don't fit that category,  I have used EJ-16  Phos. Bronze on all my Larrivees for as long as I've owned them.  Last year I acquired a legend series D-40R in hopes that it would give me something like the dread sound I had in my mind when I bought it.   After a year and a few sting changes I bought a few sets of John Pearse 80/20s.  The first set went on the D-40R.  The guitar now has the sound I was looking for.   There is a noticeable difference in the high end and the strummed chords ring like a piano.  I haven't noticed any real difference inthe bottom end but I think it may be a bit more pronounced as well. ...  Hard to tell when comparing old phos. bronze to new 80/20s of course.     Mid range is still good and I am very happy with the new sound I am getting from this guitar with these strings.  They'v only been on for a few days so I don't know about longevity.  Hopefully they will last almost as long as the
PB.  I can accept a little less lifespan if the sound is what I want.    Next I'll see what they do for something smaller like my LS-03 forum III.
Logged
bobw
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1146




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2015, 04:51:34 PM »

The key part of your question is about whether the claims for Phosphor bronze vs. 80/20 are valid or just "advertising gobbledy goop".    The claim that the 80/20 is for "vintage enthusiasts"  is based on the fact that James Taylor, Paul Simon, Neil Young, and all the other artists were using this type of string when they made most of their early iconic recordings.    So if you want that sound you need to use the 80?"20s is the obvious implication.   Of course, it helps to also have that talent in one's fingers and use the same instruments, but most of us don't fit that category,  I have used EJ-16  Phos. Bronze on all my Larrivees for as long as I've owned them.  Last year I acquired a legend series D-40R in hopes that it would give me something like the dread sound I had in my mind when I bought it.   After a year and a few sting changes I bought a few sets of John Pearse 80/20s.  The first set went on the D-40R.  The guitar now has the sound I was looking for.   There is a noticeable difference in the high end and the strummed chords ring like a piano.  I haven't noticed any real difference inthe bottom end but I think it may be a bit more pronounced as well. ...  Hard to tell when comparing old phos. bronze to new 80/20s of course.     Mid range is still good and I am very happy with the new sound I am getting from this guitar with these strings.  They'v only been on for a few days so I don't know about longevity.  Hopefully they will last almost as long as the
PB.  I can accept a little less lifespan if the sound is what I want.    Next I'll see what they do for something smaller like my LS-03 forum III.

Tuffy.. Looking forward to hearing about how they work on your LS.

Was thinking of trying them on my OO-09 but I don't like bright sounding strings.   BobW...
Logged
Barefoot Rob
Donuts?
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13992




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2015, 08:03:31 PM »

I have them on my LS10 being as the LS's tend to be a bit mid rangey to my ears they do calm that out a bit.
Logged

A REPAIRPERSON,Still Unclrob
OM03PA
Favorite saying
 OB LA DE OB LA DA,LIFE GOES ON---BRA,It is what it is,You just gotta deal it,
One By One The Penguins Steal My Sanity*Eat The Rich*, Keith and Barefoot Rob on youtube
Still unclrob
#19
12 people ignoring me,so cool
www.rpjguitarworks.com
Call PM me I may b
skyline
Senior Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 419




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2015, 02:07:47 AM »

Most Phosphor Bronze are 92/8 copper/tin on the wrap.

Most 80/20's are copper/zinc on the wrap.

Different manufacturers change the core metals too but not all that much.

Metallurgically speaking (how often do you get to type that?) bronze is an alloy of copper and tin; brass is an alloy of copper and zinc.

The word "bronze" is often used to describe an age of human development, an age largely defined by people beating each other over the head with various items, while the word "brass" is more often associated with candle sticks and trumpets - how exactly this relates to guitars is anyone's guess.

Even in our E.T.T's, guitar strings are pretty cheap. Choose a brand, buy one of each type, put them on for a couple of days of playing - rinse and repeat. If nothing else you'll get better at changing strings  bigrin

It may be ironic, but I still maintain that you'll find 80/20's to sound more on the tinny end of the scale . . .


http://www.diffen.com/difference/Brass_vs_Bronze

https://www.martinguitar.com/strings/string-training.html#928phosphorbronze

https://www.martinguitar.com/strings/string-training.html#8020bronze

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_(music)#Winding_materials

Logged
Sireel70
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2015, 03:22:25 PM »

In my experience, it's unlikely that going from a medium to medium-light gauge will affect the setup in most cases.  Going from mediums to lights may or may not induce some buzzes.  If that happens, a little tweak to the truss rod will usually correct it.  So much depends on what parameters were used to set it up for the mediums in the first place, and how low the action is with the mediums, currently. 
Thanks for the reply. Ya that's what I'm worried about the action is now pretty low with mediums. He did a great job setting it up for mediums. Maybe I'll just try some medium lights. Perhaps a dumb question but does having different gauges effect the over all balance in tone? Cause right now it's perfect.
Logged
L07 Shooting Star
Gold Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3682




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2015, 03:53:30 AM »

Thanks for the reply. Ya that's what I'm worried about the action is now pretty low with mediums. He did a great job setting it up for mediums. Maybe I'll just try some medium lights. Perhaps a dumb question but does having different gauges effect the over all balance in tone? Cause right now it's perfect.

If you are considering going to a medium-light gauge and are concerned about tone, then I would suggest trying the same brand in the lighter gauge as a starting point.  If the tone is perfect, as you describe, why change at all?   
Logged

"Badges?  We don't need no stinkin' badges."

Became a Shooting Star when I got my 1st guitar.
Back in '66, I was 13 and that was my fix.
Still shooting for stardom after all this time.
If I never make it, I'll still be fine.


 
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to: