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dberch
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« on: July 06, 2015, 06:18:41 PM »

Which is best for acoustic amplification in noisy environment? Such as restaurant with lots of ambient noise.

SM81 or SM57? 

Thanks!
David
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2015, 07:24:21 PM »

They'll both work well but with different settings,less gain with the 81 and tad more gain on the 57.I've used both but in reality a pu will do the job best,that said I still prefer mic's but with a pu its one less mic stand for someone to bump.
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2015, 07:27:55 PM »

They'll both work well but with different settings,less gain with the 81 and tad more gain on the 57.I've used both but in reality a pu will do the job best,that said I still prefer mic's but with a pu its one less mic stand for someone to bump.

Thanks, Rob.  I'd be using it as well as pickup. Some shows I want to get best sound possible.  Just curious if anyone had real-life experience with both and which would work best with some ambient noise going on.  (not quiet concert venue :) )
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2015, 07:34:51 PM »

The 57 is always my first choice,I like it about 3-4" away from the soundhole.I've used this setup outdoors on a restaurant on the main street without getting much ambient noise.
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2015, 01:46:02 PM »

The 57 is always my first choice,I like it about 3-4" away from the soundhole.I've used this setup outdoors on a restaurant on the main street without getting much ambient noise.

Thanks!
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2015, 04:37:34 PM »

No first hand experience here, but various makers have mics that clip on externally.  They seem to get pretty good reviews.  Just an example...

http://www.kksound.com/products/meridian.php

The nice thing about that approach is you can move around and don't have to be quite so rigid in your stance. 

I've never liked internal mics.

Ed
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2015, 07:13:10 PM »

No first hand experience here, but various makers have mics that clip on externally.  They seem to get pretty good reviews.  Just an example...

http://www.kksound.com/products/meridian.php

The nice thing about that approach is you can move around and don't have to be quite so rigid in your stance.  

I've never liked internal mics.

Ed


Thanks, Ed. Not an option for me as I almost always take at least two guitars to a show.  Can't afford a mic on every guitar, and won't mess with switching them around mid-stream.
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2015, 09:18:46 PM »

Hi David,

I'd take the SM81 over the SM57 for recording.  For live applications, I'd expect that you'll cut out some of the frequencies that the SM81 picks up that the SM57 doesn't.  That would be low end, and possibly high end that either don't serve you well or are counterproductive in a live situation.

Here's a nice article about the SM 81 at Recording Hacks



If you want to get an accurate reproduction of the sound of your guitar, you may end up EQ'ing out some of the high end with the SM 57


--∈∞ΘΞ Please click the picture for more details ΞΘ∞∋--
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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2015, 01:55:13 AM »

Two wildly different choices.  The 81 is a small diaphragm condenser.  Vastly superior when recording acoustics in the studio but I would not use the 81 live unless you have full control over the venue's sound and know what you're doing or really trust the house sound guy.  You don't want wild feedback in a restaurant.  If you can pull it off though, it's a much nicer sounding mic.  The 57 is pretty raunchy on acoustics.
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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2015, 01:43:51 PM »

David,
Quote
Which is best for acoustic amplification in noisy environment? Such as restaurant with lots of ambient noise.

Why not have a look a the MiniFlex 2Mic. These are a 2-mic design, which assists in getting the best sound - as well as minimizing feedback.
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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2015, 03:48:22 AM »

Thanks, Ed. Not an option for me as I almost always take at least two guitars to a show.  Can't afford a mic on every guitar, and won't mess with switching them around mid-stream.

I think that the solution Ed showed would be less farting around switching between guitars as adjusting a microphone stand between different guitars.
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« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2015, 07:40:28 AM »

Hi David,

Thanks, Rob.  I'd be using it as well as pickup. Some shows I want to get best sound possible.  Just curious if anyone had real-life experience with both and which would work best with some ambient noise going on.  (not quiet concert venue :) )

I just re-read this thread.

If you using  decent pickup(s) anyway, if you are just looking for some realism and air the SM57 will do that for you. 

If there is some ambient noise, then going to a lot of trouble and expense to get the best sound possible - well, you're doing that for you because the audience isn't going to hear the difference.

The higher the noise floor, the less dynamic range you have. The ambient noise is going to drown out the finer edges of your performances.

There's a fellow who comes through town (still probably does 200+ shows a year) - and when he does a benefit - he's one of the few for whom I'll do sound.
He always uses a pickup in his guitar (sometimes an L72, other times a Martin) and he always uses a microphone on a boom stand for the guitar too. He moves in closer and farther away from that microphone depending what he's doing with the guitar.  I've used various (and pricey) microphones for this, and he's just as happy with an SM57 or SM58. This is probably because in his 50 years on the road, there was always one or the other available for the job.

You play sitting down don't you?  The fellow of whom I'm speaking always stands. This lets him move around changing the position and angle of the guitar relative to the microphone. It's very interesting the way he works the microphone to great effect.

But the microphone is secondary in all of this, and most of the sound is coming from the pickup in the guitar.

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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2015, 07:28:38 PM »

Quote
If you using  decent pickup(s) anyway, if you are just looking for some realism and air the SM57 will do that for you.  

that's what I was looking for, thanks ST.

Quote
If there is some ambient noise, then going to a lot of trouble and expense to get the best sound possible - well, you're doing that for you because the audience isn't going to hear the difference.

Actually, there ARE venues were ambient noise is a function of bad room design, not all because of loud audience. although it IS a restaurant, so...   That's the room I'm referring to.

Quote
The higher the noise floor, the less dynamic range you have. The ambient noise is going to drown out the finer edges of your performances.

Probably true.  Guess an experiment is in order.  

Quote
There's a fellow who comes through town (still probably does 200+ shows a year) - and when he does a benefit - he's one of the few for whom I'll do sound.
He always uses a pickup in his guitar (sometimes an L72, other times a Martin) and he always uses a microphone on a boom stand for the guitar too. He moves in closer and farther away from that microphone depending what he's doing with the guitar.  I've used various (and pricey) microphones for this, and he's just as happy with an SM57 or SM58. This is probably because in his 50 years on the road, there was always one or the other available for the job.

You play sitting down don't you?  The fellow of whom I'm speaking always stands. This lets him move around changing the position and angle of the guitar relative to the microphone. It's very interesting the way he works the microphone to great effect.

I've seen some folks do this as well. some are masters at it.  Mostly still sitting but have done a few shows standing now.  Doesn't feel quite so alien :)


Quote
But the microphone is secondary in all of this, and most of the sound is coming from the pickup in the guitar.

that's my goal. Using K&K Pure mini, still.
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