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Author Topic: who uses pedals?  (Read 2013 times)
headsup
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« on: June 15, 2015, 05:07:43 AM »

dumb question I know.

As I posted in the "artists" section about a recent Tuck & patty" show I was at, Tuck Andress, not only doesn't use anything but a volume pedal, but he never touches the pick up selector, or any tone or volume control on his guitar during a full show.

his "tone is all in his finger tips".

As a rule , on stage, I'm not a pedal guy, some very subtle tremolo, maybe a bit of delay, thats it.

Just as an experiment, I yanked the chord from my master unit and just went direct, (15 watt fender full tube amp, (single volume, single tone -that's all).

And of course the players out there who are more purest than I-will nod politely when I re-iterate how rich, full and awesome the guitar (RS4) is with absolutely nothing to embelish it.
 In fact, because of all the routing involved, we actually LOSE the best tone quality by adding the efx.

Sorry to prattle on here, about overstating my personal journey for the best tone possible, luckily the R & D people of the RS4 (Matthew Larrivee) have given us a guitar that literally can stand on it's own, sans efx.

I'll let you know how this theory goes over at my upcoming show rehearsals....

but really?
 try it it, just go direct, what have you got to lose?
OK back to writing charts and learning some one else material.....
(typical late Sunday work after a full week-end of my own gigs.....)

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« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2015, 10:40:49 AM »

If pedals give me the tone I want, I haven't lost any tone quality. 

Ed
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ducktrapper
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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2015, 10:52:45 AM »

I do! I do! A few less than The Edge but I love my pedals. Wait. Are you saying it's not a good thing? 
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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2015, 02:41:52 PM »

Having used or tried almost all the pedals out there I use just one with my Princetone Reverb and thats a boss Super Overdrive SD-1.
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tuffythepug
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2015, 04:11:06 PM »

Chorus pedal and a TubeScreamer are all I ever have on the floor but I use them sparingly on certain songs or passages.  I don't have an RS4. But I am quite happy sending the signal from my strat or my Gretsch directly into a Fender Blues deluxe tube amp.

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headsup
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2015, 05:10:10 PM »

ya, sorry folks, IO realize every one has their personal and special recipe for how to get the tone they want/need.

As I am presently rehearsing material to back up another guy, there are certainly songs where, comp/dely or a tad of over drive, or some tremolo on a ballad certainly adds to the mix.
 I guess what i was saying was how simple, and awesome our favourite electric guitar can sound, going direct.

For my ears, the effect do add something, but unless you're using a very high end unit, as a rule, a good deal of the actual true tone of the instrument is lost, or altered with each new pedal that interrupts the direct feed....

Just my 37 cents worth....
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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2015, 08:10:14 PM »

The minute you have plugged into an amp, you have altered the tone.  Or moved the amp into a new space.  Or... 

How's the old saying go?  Everything is a tone control.

Also not a RS4, a 66 Guild Starfire III.  I've also pared down my effects.  Volume, Big Muff, delay (Digitech), and Boomerang Looper.

Ed
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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2015, 08:32:02 PM »

Lemme see. I use a Sans Amp Para Di with my acoustics and for my pedal board these Boss units: TU-8 tuner, SD-1 Super Distortion, GP-20 Amp Factory, DD-3 Digital Delay, TR-2 Tremolo, '63 Fender Reverb and a GE-7 EQ. My other pedals consist of an ancient Cry Baby wah-wah, a big ungainly Morley wah-wah, a Fender Starcaster Flanger, a Janglebox Compression/Sustain and a Dunlop volume pedal. I also have two very old Norlin wedge shaped things with big wheels on the side that have become very useful book ends. I use one of my two Mack Amps depending on the situation, either a Heatseeker 18 or a GEM 2.0. That's about it.        
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B0WIE
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« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2015, 08:43:44 PM »

Personally, I think you're looking at it the wrong way.  Electric guitar is about finding the right voicing for the song. Can you perform Shakespeare in a Southern accent?  I suppose so, but it's better to use the right voice for the part.  Would David Gillmor's Brick in the Wall solo sound better if he stripped away the subtle delay, compression, and overdrive?  No. They're not heavy at all, but they elevate the song greatly.

  The electric guitar is not a natural or pure sound to begin with.  The frequency response of an electric's pickup is mangled at best.  Running it through 20' of unbalanced cable colors the tone, as does the electric guitar amp (which is meant to color the tone in a flattering way),  same for the speaker, etc.  Electric guitar tone becomes softened, fattened, and highly altered, even through a "pure" path.

  Now, I'm a bit of a purist and I will only plug in the pedals I need for that song.  Having your tone patched through 10 pedals with only a couple in use WILL hurt the tone.  But, no matter how good the RS4 is, I don't believe it can echo, overdrive, flange, or reverberate in it's own.  Neither can our fingers.  So, don't think of pedals as hurting your sound.  As long as you use them judiciously, they'll enhance it.
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2015, 05:20:35 AM »

I am just back from a rehearsal with some very strong players.
 Studio musicians, pro players all.
 Bass, drums Keys, and the singer/acoustic player has played thousands of shows.
 

Some of the material I knew,, some i didn't, but I had recordings and wrote some notes/charts for myself.
The players are all 20-30 years younger than me, and very good.

I merely say this, because, the comments that have been posted have no reference for me as I don't know what effects you might use, under what circumstances, or for what reasons.

Backing up a singer/songwriter, means staying out of the way, embellishing where the song needs, and of course, soloing when nodded to.
BECAUSE of the amount of harmonic information i previously mentioned, cutting through the mix, with just the right thing, at just the right time can be a challenge.
THAT challenge for me, this evening meant the cleanest, smoothest sound possible, and as a result I didn't use any effects, (lots of band noise-efx will "junk" up the over all sound).

My BEST arsenal (and just meeting two of the players tonight) was certainly the RS4 p90/bigsby (tele didn't cut it), and my use of a volume pedal. All heads turned more than once with my use of swells, and serious pull ups with bigsby.
pure tube sound, but avoided anything but a bit of compression (great for pedal steel licks) to get the job done.
delays and chorus pedals can get messy quick with an 88 note keyboard player, bass and drums.
the style of music isn't the kind that would need distortion, so, I went with "less is More".
 Heck, being the geezer in the huge rehearsal "loft" and having the younger guys ask all these questions about what the heck was I doing and when did Larrivee start building electric guitars etc, at least made this unconventional player feel like he brought something unique to the table.

I LOVE playing solo with some term/delay, in a band situation, for me, I want every single note to be as pure and clean and appropriate as possible.

Not even sure why I'm ranting about this, maybe it's about the simple beauty of playing those lovely guitars that bring us all here, to glow about....
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George
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2015, 02:15:04 PM »

I just love it when a "well seasoned" musician uses a "dry" RS4 and kicks tail in a studio environment and gets noticed by young musicians that are not aware there are fine quality electric guitars out there without the burden of being production name-brand make/models.  IMHO there are just too many manufacturer/player endorsement agreements that force players to use those guitars when they perform and therefore they get to believing how great they are when many of them are not that great.

As for pedals, use only what you need when you really need it.  Whatever pleases your ear without overpowering the music.  It is too easy to forget to listen closely and not overdo efx to the point where they do "junk up" the music.

OK, enough ranting from the old man...
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George
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2015, 04:20:13 PM »

The thing with pedals, and effects in general, is that they can be on or off. They are merely a tool in the box. Knowing when to use them and when not to use them is what it's all about, I suppose. Moderation in all things. Including moderation.  
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Mikeymac
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2015, 06:07:06 PM »


delays and chorus pedals can get messy quick with an 88 note keyboard player, bass and drums.


Lots of wisdom in this thread, this being an excellent example. Every time you add another player, you might consider using one less stompbox...
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« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2015, 05:30:14 AM »

I don't play electric much but I like going straight into Vox AC-15 with Epi Sheriton. It has tone I like. A little spring reverb, a little crunch if I want. I got turned off to pedals when a kid because I thought people were using them too much, particularly sustain pedals at the time, instead of using their fingers. Since then I'm probably just hard headed, close minded or too lazy to mess with them..
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ducktrapper
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« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2015, 12:39:09 PM »

We seem to have discovered a cadre of guitar Luddites. You'll only get my pedals from my cold dead .... feet!  whistling
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headsup
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« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2015, 02:59:43 PM »

I think I posted somewhere, on another forum, my own pedal set up.

I don't do "pedals", because I HATE the stupid moment when one has to get down on their knees to tweak anything (and sorry, tweaking IS mandatory for every gig/situation, no matter how perfect your home set up was, or sound check was

THAT being said, I use a desk top system (pre line 6 pod but MUCH better) as far as deep edit programe mode, and tweak on the fly, (literally during a song).

I sometimes just use the unit, on a easy to reach surface close by, or I also have the option of a 14 pin floor controller, with volume pedal, and simple stomp switches to get me from one preset to another.

By "presets' I simply mean, I have a clean preset, one with a bit of tremolo, one with a bit of delay, and one with a bit of comp/dlay (barely audible)

One band leader I work with would rather I didn't use anything, so I just take the volume pedal, which, when having to do quick guitar changes makes for a lovely "kill" switch.
Better yet is the stereo in/out volume pedal.  
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