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ducktrapper
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« on: December 13, 2014, 05:12:18 PM »

I watched this Martin Scorcese film again over the last two nights and was again struck with the brilliance of this documentary. While no one who was not present when this all happened can truly understand the significance of Bob Dylan, this will get them as close as humanly possible.
I was amused how the old folkies come across as a little bitter that Dylan stole their thunder then without fanfare left them high and dry. His abandonment of folk music and especially politically motivated folk music effectively marginalized if not terminated many a career, so I guess I can understand the sentiment. What I can't understand is why, so many years later, Pete Seeger found it necessary to try to rewrite history. I don't know why he couldn't just admit that Dylan pi$$ed him off by playing electric guitar with The Butterfield Blues band at Newport. Of course, he freaked and threatened to axe the power. His story that the sound was bad and that that was his only concern is quite evidently nonsense. As he says this, we can watch and listen to Dylan's performance and while sure the sound was probably cleaned up for the movie, there is no indication that Dylan's words were indecipherable, unintelligible or inaudible. Maggie's Farm, the song that Dylan started with, is an obvious kiss off to those who wanted to keep Dylan on the reservation, singing while he slaved. He was loudly proclaiming that while he was for freedom and all, he was not on their side either. Of course Seeger and a lot of others were angry. Why not fess up? What difference did it make 40 years later? After all, watching the documentary and the reception Dylan received in England on the ensuing tour, he certainly wouldn't have been the only one to openly hate the new Dylan. At least, the still beautiful Joan Baez is honest about it.   
I also came away re-amazed (is that a word) at the brilliance of Mr. Tambourine Man, Ballad of a Thin Man and Like A Rolling Stone. 
I'm still wading through the Complete Basement Tapes (what a project) that I recently bought and can't wait for the album of Sinatra covers due in February. Keep 'em coming Mr. D!   
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2014, 04:17:04 AM »

I watched this Martin Scorcese film again over the last two nights and was again struck with the brilliance of this documentary. While no one who was not present when this all happened can truly understand the significance of Bob Dylan, this will get them as close as humanly possible.
I was amused how the old folkies come across as a little bitter that Dylan stole their thunder then without fanfare left them high and dry. His abandonment of folk music and especially politically motivated folk music effectively marginalized if not terminated many a career, so I guess I can understand the sentiment. What I can't understand is why, so many years later, Pete Seeger found it necessary to try to rewrite history. I don't know why he couldn't just admit that Dylan pi$$ed him off by playing electric guitar with The Butterfield Blues band at Newport. Of course, he freaked and threatened to axe the power. His story that the sound was bad and that that was his only concern is quite evidently nonsense. As he says this, we can watch and listen to Dylan's performance and while sure the sound was probably cleaned up for the movie, there is no indication that Dylan's words were indecipherable, unintelligible or inaudible. Maggie's Farm, the song that Dylan started with, is an obvious kiss off to those who wanted to keep Dylan on the reservation, singing while he slaved. He was loudly proclaiming that while he was for freedom and all, he was not on their side either. Of course Seeger and a lot of others were angry. Why not fess up? What difference did it make 40 years later? After all, watching the documentary and the reception Dylan received in England on the ensuing tour, he certainly wouldn't have been the only one to openly hate the new Dylan. At least, the still beautiful Joan Baez is honest about it.   
I also came away re-amazed (is that a word) at the brilliance of Mr. Tambourine Man, Ballad of a Thin Man and Like A Rolling Stone.
I'm still wading through the Complete Basement Tapes (what a project) that I recently bought and can't wait for the album of Sinatra covers due in February. Keep 'em coming Mr. D!   

Whew, lots to absorb there.  Being a Dylan fan and follower and very interested, I will have to look at that production again before I comment further.
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ducktrapper
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2014, 02:03:19 PM »

I was only ten when Blowing in the Wind became a hit for PP&M and while I was aware of the name Bob Dylan, I never paid much attention to the folk music boom. My oldest brother was a big fan of the white bread folkies, PP&M, Kingston Trio and the like. No Guthrie, Seeger or Dylan for him and I couldn't stand any of it. From the time I was aware of music, I liked country songs. Hank Williams, Jim Reeves, Johnny Horton, Frankie Laine, Tennessee Ernie Ford etc. My next oldest brother loved Elvis and rock'n'roll and I heartily agreed with all that. Of course like almost everyone else, The Beatles and the British invasion won me over immediately.
It wasn't until Dylan went electric that I paid any attention to him. I first heard Subterranean Homesick Blues on the radio and loved it. Then came the snare shot that was heard around the world, Like a Rollling Stone and I was hooked. Highway 61 Revisited was the first Dylan album I heard all the way through and I absolutely loved it all. Living in Canada, we were a year behind in most things and it seems he had his accident and retired before I was really aware of him. From 1967 on, I started listening to the older stuff, and by the end of the decade, I'd put away my electric guitar and was playing folk rock with the worst of them. Anyway, I leaned toward the rough and ready Dylanesque style although not so much the political stuff and still, while I respect Woody Guthrie and a few others, I still  don't have much use for most of the singers from the folk movement. Probably because I wasn't going to be drafted and sent to Viet Nam and segregation not being a big issue in Canada, while certainly supported the fight for civil rights, the songs didn't attract me as much. It wasn't until Dylan stopped doing that stuff and went electric, the very thing that pi$$ed off the old movement folkies, that I became attracted to his music. I guess that's why I get where he was coming from with Maggie's Farm, It Ain't Me Babe and It's All Over Now Baby Blue and why I take his side over Seeger et all.   
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2014, 04:28:02 AM »

My exposure to Bob Dylan is very similar to yours, Ducktrapper.  I think "Like a Rolling Stone" was the first number that I knew was by Bob Dylan.  I had no idea that he had a previous presence.  I may have heard Peter Paul and Mary do Blowing in the Wind prior to that, but I had no idea someone else had written the song.  The first Dylan album I actually purchased was Nashville Skyline which he recorded with Johnny Cash.
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"Badges?  We don't need no stinkin' badges."

Became a Shooting Star when I got my 1st guitar.
Back in '66, I was 13 and that was my fix.
Still shooting for stardom after all this time.
If I never make it, I'll still be fine.


 
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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2014, 07:56:34 PM »

Highway 61 is an amazing record, and I think his best work.. My favourite Dylan song is Positively 4th Street. Absolute genius. So Duck, and any other Dylan fans, what  are your favourite Dylan tracks and records.
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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2014, 11:04:56 PM »

Highway 61 is an amazing record, and I think his best work.. My favourite Dylan song is Positively 4th Street. Absolute genius. So Duck, and any other Dylan fans, what  are your favourite Dylan tracks and records.

Oh .... so many. How weird is Bob Dylan, however? Great songs like the one you mention, Blind Willie McTell, Series of Dreams and others didn't even make it on to an album until these "Bootleg" albums started coming out. In the No Direction Home film, Joan Baez sings the fanatastic Love is Just a Four Letter Word, a song Dylan claims to have forgotten having written. Must be nice to have so many good songs you can forget about them!

I have to agree on HW 61. Amazing piece of genius and the band, with the great Mike Bloomfield, is tremendous. Younger people don't realize how Dylan changed, not only folk music but rock'n'roll. To wit, NO ONE, at least no one white, played LOUD until Dylan and The Band Hawks took off on that tour. The Beatles, for instance, could not be heard and couldn't hear each other, in most of their shows, over the screaming little girls. Dylan, after being booed in the States was determined that he would be louder than the boos so they put together one of if not the first modern sound systems. The English, used to "normal" acts would also clap in rhythm to drown out things that they didn't like. Bob and the Hawks pinned their ears back when they tried it on them. I love after he's called Judas, when he turns to the boys and says, "Play it ****in' loud!" and they break into LARS. Classic moment in musical history.     

Anyway, from that amazing three album period in '65/'66, I love Mr. Tambourine Man, It's All Over Now, Baby Blue, It's Alright Ma, (I'm Only Bleeding), Ballad of a Thin Man, Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues, Tombstone Blues, Desolation Row, Visions of Johanna, Just Like A Woman, Memphis Blues Again and I Want You. And, of course, the song many consider the best of them all, Like A Rolling Stone. Wait! I nearly named them all .... didn't I 
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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2014, 01:45:46 AM »

Well, we have very similar tastes Duck. I love all those songs as well. Also very fond of the Nashville Skyline album. Bob is certainly a human Chameleon.....and it is nearly all so darn good; and this from a guy with, shall we say, a below average voice.
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ducktrapper
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2014, 04:43:01 AM »

Well, we have very similar tastes Duck. I love all those songs as well. Also very fond of the Nashville Skyline album. Bob is certainly a human Chameleon.....and it is nearly all so darn good; and this from a guy with, shall we say, a below average voice.

Very similar. But I'm such a sick puppy, I love his voice.  ohmy

Have you heard Another Self Portrait (Bootleg Series Vol. 10), by the way? My wife is not fond of his voice but really likes that one. 
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2014, 05:04:42 AM »

Highway 61 is an amazing record, and I think his best work.. My favourite Dylan song is Positively 4th Street. Absolute genius. So Duck, and any other Dylan fans, what  are your favourite Dylan tracks and records.

Being not as familiar with all his songs as some of you, I have to say I agree Positively 4th street is my favorite.  It is the ultimate "telling someone off" lyric in my books.  It invokes a certain understanding of the situation that I can identify with somehow.
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"Badges?  We don't need no stinkin' badges."

Became a Shooting Star when I got my 1st guitar.
Back in '66, I was 13 and that was my fix.
Still shooting for stardom after all this time.
If I never make it, I'll still be fine.


 
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2014, 04:23:12 PM »

Highway 61 is an amazing record, and I think his best work.. My favourite Dylan song is Positively 4th Street. Absolute genius. So Duck, and any other Dylan fans, what  are your favourite Dylan tracks and records.
+1 I remember playing a 45 over and over of Positively 4th Street when I was around twelve. So many other songs of his are favorites, but this one is my top Dylan song.
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2014, 04:44:30 PM »

With recent incidents on Facebook I have to say I couldn't agree more.

You've got a lot of nerve to say you are my friend! 
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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2014, 10:25:52 PM »

Been a dylan fan since about 1968. But this year my boss asked me to teach a class to my middle schoolers on the history of rock/pop music. The last three weeks I have covered Dylan and I have to say that my students have absolutely loved learning about him and discovering music from several stages of his career. While they haven't always understood his lyrics, especially those from the mid 1960s, they've really gotten into it. Some have gone home and explored more of his music on their own time. So far this year they've become acquainted with guys like Dion, the Everly Bros, Little Ricard and so many more. Next up will be the Beatles and the British Invasion.
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« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2014, 11:54:06 PM »

Been a dylan fan since about 1968. But this year my boss asked me to teach a class to my middle schoolers on the history of rock/pop music.
Seems like quite a progressive middle school  bowdown
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« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2014, 12:13:24 AM »

Seems like quite a progressive middle school  bowdown

Its actually a Catholic school and we're a pretty conservative community politically. I'm the middle school history teacher and this class is only once a week so it's not a big part of our schedule. But the principal (and me) are both huge music fans and she was even at Woodstock when she was 18. The response this year from the parents has been really great and as I said, the kids love it. It's also very easy for me to incorporate US history from the 50's and 60's into my music lessons as well. Very easy to get the kids thinking about Civil Rights, the War in Vietnam, etc. when listening to this music.
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« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2014, 03:09:10 AM »

We were aware of Dylan the writer early in the 60'.  PP&M started it, but the the Byrds, the Turtles, Hendrix et al introduced us to his songs in a serious way.  But no one really heard of him as a performer until Like a Rolling Stone hit the airwaves.  Unfortunately, he never had a hit that big again.
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« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2014, 03:17:26 AM »

We were aware of Dylan the writer early in the 60'.  PP&M started it, but the the Byrds, the Turtles, Hendrix et al introduced us to his songs in a serious way.  But no one really heard of him as a performer until Like a Rolling Stone hit the airwaves.  Unfortunately, he never had a hit that big again.
Maybe no hit bigger, but what he did was bigger than a hit; if that makes sense 
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« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2014, 03:36:14 AM »

Dylan is the one that all singer/songwriters are compared to. I even think of Jackson Browne as the Dylan from L.A.

      Who hasn't been compared to him that is really good at writing songs at least in America.  
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ducktrapper
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« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2014, 03:55:07 PM »

Dylan is the one that all singer/songwriters are compared to. I even think of Jackson Browne as the Dylan from L.A.

      Who hasn't been compared to him that is really good at writing songs at least in America.  

Um, Barry Manilow? After all, he writes the songs that make the whole world sing.  
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« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2014, 04:34:06 PM »

Maybe no hit bigger, but what he did was bigger than a hit; if that makes sense 

Well, yes and no.

Dylan told Lennon "you have nothing to say."  Yet pull any stranger aside and ask them to name a Beatles song.  You'll get a myriad of answers.

Lennon told Dylan "No one hears what you say."  Pull any stranger aside and ask them to name a Dylan song...most likely you'll get Like a Rolling Stone, or a blank stare.

Dylan was a big deal in the 60's.....but that was about it.  For sure, he has a huge catalog....but what good is it if no one hears it?
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« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2014, 04:53:50 PM »



Dylan was a big deal in the 60's.....but that was about it.  For sure, he has a huge catalog....but what good is it if no one hears it?
Steve I get your point. Is Dylan by himself mainstream popular - IMO No not really. But is he the biggest influence on all who have been mainstream popular since - IMO he has no equal.  For me its a completely different level - one that I can get immersed in quite complex for my simple mind.
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