Will Lipstick Pickups transform a stratish guitar into a Danelectro sound-alike?

[guitarmax99]

 

So I was thinking about getting a Danelectro to get that 60's-"surfy" sound, but I'm just not crazy about how their necks feel.  Right now, I have a couple of electric guitar (both Ibanez strat-variants) one, I really like, the other feels great, but it doesn't get that much use these days.  I was wondering if an alternative to going with a Dano, would be to put lipstick pickups in the Ibanez?  Anyone out there have any experience with this kind of thing?  Would this accomplish what I want?  If so, any good leads on which lipstick pickups to "pickup"?

[tuffythepug]

The lipstick pickup will certainly change the sound of your "strat-style"  Ibanez but I don't think you are going to get close to a Danelectro sound with it.   A big part of the Danelectro sound is the fact that it's a hollowbody with wood, vinyl, masonite, and formica construction materials.   A solid-body Ibanez does not have any common features with the Dano so I don't see how you could get the same sound.    But you may get something you like anyhow...   you never know until you try.

[rockstar_not]

As important as pickup type is pickup placement along the length of the string, string length and that big list tuffy mentioned.  I doubt that the pup placement for a strat matches that for the model of Danelectro you are wanting to copy.

[ducktrapper]

There's more to guitar's sound then the pups, that's for sure. That said, humbuckers on a strat or tele certainly make them a different  beast. Nothing ventured nothing gained, as they say.   

[unclrob]

Dano pu's have a lower out put then most pu's.Anywhere from 3.5ohms to 5.5 ohms.They won't make your guitar sound less stratish just different.

[guitarmax99]

Dano pu's have a lower out put then most pu's.Anywhere from 3.5ohms to 5.5 ohms.They won't make your guitar sound less stratish just different.

So you think the general characteristic "sound" of the guitar will remain even if I put lipstick pickups in it?  My goal wouldn't necessarily be to turn it INTO a danelectro, but to nudge it in that direction - and in the process, get a guitar that offers me more variety from my other electric. 

BTW, Thanks to everyone who has posted with their thoughts.  Some good food for thought so far. 

[rockstar_not]

As to my comment about where the pickup is located along the string has a big impact on the timbre because of the way that the string moves in the magnetic field AT THAT PARTICULAR POSITION.

This is why you have pickups located generally in the neck, middle and bridge positions, with all of the various angles that folks have tried.

As you get closer to the bridge, the timbre shifts to higher and higher frequencies, because the balance of motion at that location on the string changes from the lower frequency motion of full string modal motion to the higher modes that are present all along the string, but washed out for example at the neck position by the larger motion of the lower frequency modes.

That's why the bridge position sounds 'brighter' than a neck pickup position, for the same type of pickup.  The harmonic balance of vibration is biased towards the higher frequencies because the string simply cannot move as much in translation for the lower frequencies near the hinge point (saddle) than it can farther up the string.

There's no accident that no matter what manufacturer is used - if you use a 25.5" scale length and put even really crummy quality single coil pickups in a piece of junk pine at the exact positions that strats have used, and wired together in similar fashion, it's going to sound 'stratty'.

In trying to find a video that shows this, I ran across this page, which talks about timbre changes for identical pickups along the length of the string:  http://www.gmarts.org/index.php?go=234

Here's another link that has some great graphics which might help in deeper understanding of how and why pickups are placed where they are.  http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponse/   This guy also has some old Java applets which help to show what is going on:  http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponseDemo/index.html

So, unless Danelectro uses exactly the same pickup positions along the string length as what exist in your Ibanez Strat copy, (highly unlikely), then even putting in Danelectro supplied pickups is not going to be the end-all or may not even product a pleasant sound.

Go ahead and start shopping for a Dano!

[guitarmax99]

As to my comment about where the pickup is located along the string has a big impact on the timbre because of the way that the string moves in the magnetic field AT THAT PARTICULAR POSITION.

This is why you have pickups located generally in the neck, middle and bridge positions, with all of the various angles that folks have tried.

As you get closer to the bridge, the timbre shifts to higher and higher frequencies, because the balance of motion at that location on the string changes from the lower frequency motion of full string modal motion to the higher modes that are present all along the string, but washed out for example at the neck position by the larger motion of the lower frequency modes.

That's why the bridge position sounds 'brighter' than a neck pickup position, for the same type of pickup.  The harmonic balance of vibration is biased towards the higher frequencies because the string simply cannot move as much in translation for the lower frequencies near the hinge point (saddle) than it can farther up the string.

There's no accident that no matter what manufacturer is used - if you use a 25.5" scale length and put even really crummy quality single coil pickups in a piece of junk pine at the exact positions that strats have used, and wired together in similar fashion, it's going to sound 'stratty'.

In trying to find a video that shows this, I ran across this page, which talks about timbre changes for identical pickups along the length of the string:  http://www.gmarts.org/index.php?go=234

Here's another link that has some great graphics which might help in deeper understanding of how and why pickups are placed where they are.  http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponse/   This guy also has some old Java applets which help to show what is going on:  http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponseDemo/index.html

So, unless Danelectro uses exactly the same pickup positions along the string length as what exist in your Ibanez Strat copy, (highly unlikely), then even putting in Danelectro supplied pickups is not going to be the end-all or may not even product a pleasant sound.

Go ahead and start shopping for a Dano!

Hmmm... thanks for the input.  Upon much reflection, you have probably saved me a few bucks and some wasted time.  I suppose it's probably wiser to just go and find the guitar that has the sound that I want rather than experiment on my existing guitar and hope I get the sound I want.  Of course I am still left with a guitar that I am not using that much (and quite frankly probably won't fetch much if I try to sell it).  Last night I sourced a set of lipsticks PUPs second hand for $75 and I'm tempted to do it anyway...  I'm kinda "in for a pound" on this guitar and I like the neck.  I just want to get something different and I can't imagine it will hurt the tone.  I know Stevie Ray Vaughn had a custom Charley Wirz strat with lipstick pickups at one point - so it couldn't sound that bad.

Thanks for the links and the insight.  Knowing me, I will probably end up with a dano AND a set of lipsticks in my ibanez by the time all is said and done.

[tuffythepug]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained, as they say.   It's pretty much assured that you will achieve a sound that is different than the stock Ibanez pickup arrangement you now have.  You may like it, you may hate it, but it will be unique to that guitar.  If it has a minimal resale value to begin with you are losing anything by modifying it. 

good luck

[unclrob]

May I suggest a Bakersfield or a tele?



I'm a tale junkie myself.