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ducktrapper
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« on: December 08, 2013, 07:40:41 PM »

If, like me, you've been told that a Shure Beta SM-58 is not worth the added cost, you've been told wrong. Beta is better. I'm loving this mic with my Bose compact system and my Larrivée OOO-50. Great combo. The OOO with just a passive K&k mini surprised me by sounding terrific through the Bose without a pre-amp of any kind. It actually sounds better than my pre-amped guitars.   
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flatlander
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2013, 09:42:03 PM »

Yep on the 58 Beta's. We have 2 and they definitely sound better than the regular 58's.
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2013, 11:07:34 PM »

"Better" is really a subjective term.  For instance, I'd always grab the regular 57' or 58' for electric guitar cabs or snare because they sound better than the beta 58.  But, you're right in that the beta will usually sound better on acoustic.  They're good mics for live vocals too.
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ducktrapper
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2013, 12:45:23 AM »

"Better" is really a subjective term.  For instance, I'd always grab the regular 57' or 58' for electric guitar cabs or snare because they sound better than the beta 58.  But, you're right in that the beta will usually sound better on acoustic.  They're good mics for live vocals too.

Oh yeah, I guess I should have been more specific. I'm only talking about vocals, live or otherwise. I use a 57 and a regular 58 and a bunch of other mics too.
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longlaketech
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« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2013, 07:42:25 PM »

I run my Beta 58 thru a Roland AC 60 and am very pleased with it. Makes my crappy voice sound less crappy, which is all I can ask!
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2014, 11:33:06 PM »

I run my Beta 58 thru a Roland AC 60 and am very pleased with it. Makes my crappy voice sound less crappy, which is all I can ask!

I think you should approach Shure marketing with this as a tagline:

"Makes my crappy voice sound less crappy"


People will line up to buy, I tell you....
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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2014, 12:41:06 PM »

My duo partner and I have used the Beta58A since we started in 2005. Smoother sound, imo. I like the tighter pattern. It cuts out a lot of surrounding noise going on, but it makes the mic not so good for a 'gather around the mic and sing' mic.

A member in our band, a lady, used a cheap mic forever (Samson i think). We kept after her, forever it seemed, to get a good mic. She finally got a regular Shure 58. It really made a huge difference in her sound.

Can't go wrong with either in an acoustic/acoustic rock setting.
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2014, 12:56:58 PM »

Really glad to hear the news about the K&K mini.
Not sure what I did wrong, maybe just to accustomed to the "sound" of my other rigs....

and yes the Beta58's are way better than regular 58's.

the next big jump is when you go to Condensor mics, (phantom power)

once you try, say, a AKG 535 for vocals, the 58's end up on Kijiji....
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« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2014, 11:23:55 PM »

Thanks for all the info/opinion/advice. Great to have professionals offering their experience. I've been using an sm58 mounted to my music stand to pickup both voice and guitar. It's ok but I think it could be better.
I run my Beta 58 thru a Roland AC 60 and am very pleased with it. Makes my crappy voice sound less crappy, which is all I can ask!

Do you think an at2050 condenser mic would improve my crappy voice? Been thinking of changing for a while now. Also talking with friends about starting an open mic, would the condenser be fitting for that application? Thanks 
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Mr_LV19E
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« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2014, 02:21:43 AM »

I wouldn't put a condenser microphone at an open mic. They are too susceptible to damage. And generally more expensive.
Your SM58 will work just fine for that and they are nearly indestructible.

 +1

And no microphone is going to improve your voice.  Condenser mic's work well for recording and would be fine for mic'ing yourself but they don't handle well, meaning they're more fragile and pick up handling noises that would be undesirable.
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« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2014, 05:39:17 AM »

+1

And no microphone is going to improve your voice.  Condenser mic's work well for recording and would be fine for mic'ing yourself but they don't handle well, meaning they're more fragile and pick up handling noises that would be undesirable.







Sorry, so wrong here. I have been using the AKG 535 condenser mic, as well as other band members for many years. hundreds of show a year.
Sound techs (good ones) have no issue with us showing up at festivals etc, with our own Condensor mice, (all mixers have phantom power now)
When we run our own sound, we never have feed back issues, and although I don't care for a hot monitor mix, others in my playing situations do, never a problem with feedback.

Consider your high quality microphone as important as your guitars.

 You look after it- simple. condenser mics (certainly the AKG 535) are a very solid mic designed for stage and show use, do the research.
this is a mic that you sing naturally into, a full one inch away from the mesh. You don't "eat" a condensor mic like you do a 58.

 58's are famous for taking a lot of abuse, doesn't make them a good microphone for the human voice.
 people love them the way they love their Martins or Gibsons because it's what every one else uses.
 
Once I left the world of 58's  (and martins) and stepped up to a real vocal mic on stage that is  crystal clear, and accurately reproduces my voice with out the mid range bump of 58's or others, I never looked back,

 Not all condensor mics are designed simply for studio, do your research,
I good mic, a very good mic is always worth  the money spent. Just take care of it, treat it with respect.
 Just like your Larrivee guitar...
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« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2014, 06:56:25 AM »







Sorry, so wrong here. I have been using the AKG 535 condenser mic, as well as other band members for many years. hundreds of show a year.
Sound techs (good ones) have no issue with us showing up at festivals etc, with our own Condensor mice, (all mixers have phantom power now)
When we run our own sound, we never have feed back issues, and although I don't care for a hot monitor mix, others in my playing situations do, never a problem with feedback.

Consider your high quality microphone as important as your guitars.

 You look after it- simple. condenser mics (certainly the AKG 535) are a very solid mic designed for stage and show use, do the research.
this is a mic that you sing naturally into, a full one inch away from the mesh. You don't "eat" a condensor mic like you do a 58.

 58's are famous for taking a lot of abuse, doesn't make them a good microphone for the human voice.
 people love them the way they love their Martins or Gibsons because it's what every one else uses.
 
Once I left the world of 58's  (and martins) and stepped up to a real vocal mic on stage that is  crystal clear, and accurately reproduces my voice with out the mid range bump of 58's or others, I never looked back,

 Not all condensor mics are designed simply for studio, do your research,
I good mic, a very good mic is always worth  the money spent. Just take care of it, treat it with respect.
 Just like your Larrivee guitar...

I think you misunderstood my point, what I was trying to say is that a good condenser mic is not going to improve a voice that is not in pitch, if anything the out of pitch voice os going to sound worse.  I'm assuming that is what is meant by a crappy singing voice as any voice in pitch sounds good to me, wouldn't want everyones voice to sound the same, that would be boring.

He was talking about using it for an open mic and I still don't think that would be a good choice for a condenser, its easy to take care of your own equipment but at a open mic you have no idea what might happen. The audio technica  at2030 is designated as a studio mic, I'm not familiar with the akg your referring to but I see it is a stage mic, I'm still not sure why you would want to spend $300 for a open mic mic but YMMV.
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« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2014, 07:35:10 AM »

Thanks gents, I do appreciate your input. So the main drawback is it's vulnerability, I take it. I have in mind two or more people standing at a mic with or without instruments. I thought perhaps a side address condenser would be appropriate, mounted on a stable stand. I'm getting educated before I drop $200 on a mic.  Thanks
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bluesman67
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« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2014, 12:59:32 PM »

I think you should approach Shure marketing with this as a tagline:

"Makes my crappy voice sound less crappy"


People will line up to buy, I tell you....

SOLD!   
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« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2014, 04:13:12 PM »

Apologies, if I misunderstood, for an open mic where many are using a mic, a 58 is a good choice.
I do feel the a better mic makes my voice sound better though, but if you ever see a good deal on an AKG 535, gab it anyways.
I'm sure if you compared them, you'll understand my rave of them.
 
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« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2014, 05:43:02 PM »

Thanks for that clarification Mark.
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« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2014, 02:22:58 PM »

Dare I wade in here?

Use of a single SM58 to pick up both voice and guitar is going to be a challenge for the SM58 because of it's cardioid polar pattern.  It's just not designed to do this and it takes some bit of work to place that mic correctly to get a good mix of voice and guitar.  If you have it working for you, great.  But still going to be some work to make that happen quickly.

A beta 58 would be even worse for this application.  For the price of a Beta 58, you can go buy a little 4 channel mixer that has two mic preamps AND another SM58 (which are totally fine to use on guitars and anything else for live sound use - it's really just a 57 with a mesh ball and a little bit of pop-filter thrown in, and 57's are totally fine for vox - particularly if you get the foam topper accessory) and a second mic stand.

Then you can do a much better job mixing levels without having to find the golden spot for a single sm58 to pick up vox and guitar in the kind of mix you think is appropriate.

If you do want to do a single mic only setup, then I would go for one of the tiny U85x series of mics from audio technica.  You often see these hanging over choir spaces.  There's a stand mount for them.  I've used these mics in many different applications where multiple sources need capture from an unobtrusive position.  I've stereo mic'ed a grand piano with them.  Used one out in front of a Cajon player for both snap and boom from the Cajon, etc. etc. etc.  They are omnis, so you have to exercise a little bit of care as to where you use them relative to your PA speakers, but they are fantastic mics for this type of purpose.  You will see them listed mainly as hanging microphones, but they do come with a little 'boom' stand mount (at least they used to) which lets you use them in many different applications (for example inside a nearly closed grand piano)
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« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2014, 04:08:24 AM »

Now you tell me Scott. To late. I already purchased the at2050. Looking foreword to learning what I did wrong. Well I'm learning.
Actually, it wasn't to bad using the sm58 to catch both voice and guitar because I wear the guitar high (standing). Not much distance between guitar and mouth.
Thanks for your thoughts.
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« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2014, 01:30:46 PM »

broKen,

The 2050 looks like a great mic - you might try the figure 8 pattern, with one lobe aimed at your mouth, and the other positioned around the 12th fret aimed toward the sound hole (I can't picture if there's a way to position this mic that way.

You also need phantom power - how is that being supplied?

Multi-pattern mics are quite useful.  If you find you can't get a good balance between vox and axe with the 2050 alone, a fairly small investment in a small format mixer should really tighten things up.  You'll put the 2050 in it's tightest cardioid pattern for the axe, positioned roughly 12" off of the 12th fret, aimed at the soundhole, and the 58 for your vox.

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« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2014, 04:43:04 PM »

broKen,

The 2050 looks like a great mic - you might try the figure 8 pattern, with one lobe aimed at your mouth, and the other positioned around the 12th fret aimed toward the sound hole (I can't picture if there's a way to position this mic that way.

You also need phantom power - how is that being supplied?

Multi-pattern mics are quite useful.  If you find you can't get a good balance between vox and axe with the 2050 alone, a fairly small investment in a small format mixer should really tighten things up.  You'll put the 2050 in it's tightest cardioid pattern for the axe, positioned roughly 12" off of the 12th fret, aimed at the soundhole, and the 58 for your vox.



Sorry I missed this post.
The figure eight or hour glass patern describes opposite sides of the mic, so your suggestion can't work. What I do is simply turn the mic up hot and back away. The amp powers the mic.
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