The Forum III needs a tune up

[huladude456]

After 3 years of good times my Forum III has developed a hump in the neck where the neck meets the body.  It's not a lot but enough to cause some buzzing.  Anyone else having this with their LS-03?  What causes this? (I know, I know, it's all about humidity.  It's always about the lack of humidity!)

I've had this happen before with a used L-03 that I bought off the Forum, and I figured it was because of improper care by the previous owner.  But maybe I'm the owner who is improperly caring for his guitars!  I'm starting to think that hanging guitars on the wall is not a good idea.  I park a humidifier by my guitar in the winter months and put it in the case with a damp-it during the serious part of the heating season, but the rest of the time she's hanging on an inside wall away from the heat source...

So, what is to be done?  grind and polish frets 12, 13, 14?  Neck reset?  Higher saddle?  The tension rod has been loosened but that didn't help.  I'm rambling here over a well-worn topic because I want to be ready when I take the guitar into the repair guy tomorrow.

Thanks for reading.


P.S.  I never could get the L03 back to where I wanted, even after 3 different luthier repair people looked it, but I'm cautiously optimistic about the guy I'm seeing tomorrow.

[huladude456]

I should add that I keep that humidifier set at 50% RH in the winter and it is plenty humid now with lots of rain in the forecast.

[unclrob]

Hanging guitar is not the best way to display them,there better off on a stand.Even then its best for them to be in there case.What you need to do is get the guitar to you favorite tech/luthier/repairperson for a check up.As a repairperson I'd do a fret leveling and recrown and tell you when not in use keep it in the case.Just because the humidity is set at 50% doesn't mean that its 50% up on the wall.Other things come into play is it hanging on an exterior wall does the sun shine in on it,its hotter near the ceiling then it is near the floor.

[huladude456]

Thanks for your thoughts, unclrob.  Would you say this kind neck bump is always attributable to low humidity?  Would high spring and summer humidity ever bring it back or is the damage done?

Lastly is there potential for damage to a guitar from hanging it in the summer months; or, humidity aside, is the hanger part of the problem?

[gtrplayer]

The hump could be caused from the guitar drying out.  It might get better just by adding a couple of damp-its in the case with it for a week.  If that doesn't help a good fret leveling,  or somewhat more involved a refret with a fingerboard planing.  A neck reset would be last resort.  Good luck.

[Queequeg]

A fellow I have a good deal of respect for, living in eastern Washington addressed this issue of "the 14th fret bump" on another forum several years ago.
Freeman Keller wrote:
Actually it is very common and you'll even see it on new guitars. Several things are at work here - mainly the neck is set at an angle to the top - usually 1-1/2 to 2 degrees (remember that a straightedge on the fretboard will hit the top of the bridge). Then when the fretboard extension is glued to the top it is pulled down flat and points at the bottom of the bridge. The tension of the strings create the relief, the truss rod counter acts it, but the truss rod stops at the neck heel, usually the 14th fret. Your picture is good, here is a little sketch I like to use.



If you look at most new guitars you'll see it unless the builder makes a special attempt at either catilevering the freboard or setting it into the top - sometimes you well see this done on cutaways. Humidity issues and needing a neck reset may make it worse, but other than that there isn't much you can do about it.

However, the good news is that (1) very few of us play much above the 14th fret and (2) the way it drops away only means the the action gets higher - it won't create buzzes or other issues. Do not adjust your truss rod (and certainly understand exactly what happens when you do adjust it) - just keep [your guitar] well humidified.

(fwiw, both my old Martins have it, my Taylor does to a lesser extent, and my home made ones do too)

[Danny]

The forum III is a 12 fret, though that makes little difference here. Mine has no issue like this but I will keep an eye on it now seeing as it is hanging on a wall. No air vents, sunlight or humidity problems effect my guitars though. I make sure of that.

     I think this could be addressed with a fret dressing. But it would be good to see the F-III.

[unclrob]

A fellow I have a good deal of respect for, living in eastern Washington addressed this issue of "the 14th fret bump" on another forum several years ago.
Freeman Keller wrote:
Actually it is very common and you'll even see it on new guitars. Several things are at work here - mainly the neck is set at an angle to the top - usually 1-1/2 to 2 degrees (remember that a straightedge on the fretboard will hit the top of the bridge). Then when the fretboard extension is glued to the top it is pulled down flat and points at the bottom of the bridge. The tension of the strings create the relief, the truss rod counter acts it, but the truss rod stops at the neck heel, usually the 14th fret. Your picture is good, here is a little sketch I like to use.



If you look at most new guitars you'll see it unless the builder makes a special attempt at either catilevering the freboard or setting it into the top - sometimes you well see this done on cutaways. Humidity issues and needing a neck reset may make it worse, but other than that there isn't much you can do about it.

However, the good news is that (1) very few of us play much above the 14th fret and (2) the way it drops away only means the the action gets higher - it won't create buzzes or other issues. Do not adjust your truss rod (and certainly understand exactly what happens when you do adjust it) - just keep [your guitar] well humidified.

(fwiw, both my old Martins have it, my Taylor does to a lesser extent, and my home made ones do too)

Great stuff here.Thanks.
Humidifing the guitar will help but get into a case.Like I said just because the humidifier say 50% doesn't mean the room is balance all around.A fret dressing will solve the problem if humidifying the guitar doesn't.There is no need for a refret of any sort.

[GA-ME]

The couple of acoustics I built, I took this into account and radiused the sides +/- 1 1/2 degrees, so the angle of the neck set carried through into the area of the rims/top that the fingerboard extension gets glued to. So far, no 12 fret hump on these two 12 fretters.

[huladude456]

I live in Vermont and the swing in indoor humidity from summer to winter is dramatic, so I'm always running the humidifier and I often put the guitar in the case with a damp-it when the heat is cranking during the coldest parts of the winter.  That being said, I'm not heating now and it's like a terrarium around here so I'm not sure putting the guitar in the case is going to do much to reverse the problem.  Taking the guitar to the luthier this afternoon. I'll let folks know his thoughts when he has guitar in hand.

I'll relinquish the hanging of the guitar in the winter months, but reluctantly.  I like seeing my guitar and I like the ease of just grabbing it off the wall.

[flatlander]

Keep it in the case. The consistency of the humidity in a case is much better.

[Danny]

I live in Vermont and the swing in indoor humidity from summer to winter is dramatic, so I'm always running the humidifier and I often put the guitar in the case with a damp-it when the heat is cranking during the coldest parts of the winter.  That being said, I'm not heating now and it's like a terrarium around here so I'm not sure putting the guitar in the case is going to do much to reverse the problem.  Taking the guitar to the luthier this afternoon. I'll let folks know his thoughts when he has guitar in hand.

I'll relinquish the hanging of the guitar in the winter months, but reluctantly.  I like seeing my guitar and I like the ease of just grabbing it off the wall.

Can you take some good pics of this problem?

Keep it in the case. The consistency of the humidity in a case is much better.

I'm keeping mine on the wall. But I'll promise to keep a bunch of others in their cases.

[headsup]

Hanging guitars on the wall is good if you don't wanna play them.

Just not a good idea, proper stand, or case.
and yes I concur with others, 50% "might" be ok, but I would go a tad higher if your guitar is exposed to the wall elements.

Some-one on this forum took a shot at me when I said I keep mine at 65%, (almost impossible in dry Canadian winters),
The guitars are constantly coming and going, depending on the gig, in and out of cases, in and out of guitars, in and out of halls, etc.

I would take it off the wall, and keep humidity at 55%.

[huladude456]

Can't take any photos because I did decide to leave the guitar with the luthier/repair guy on friday.  He says the neck isn't bad but it needs attention -- typical bump in neck where neck meets body.  It might get better once the guitar has some time acclimate to the higher humidity, but for now we are doing a complete fret dress and putting in a slightly taller saddle (which is a somewhat unrelated problem).  The E slot is too deep he says and we will address that too.  That's the word for now.

[unclrob]

  Nothing like a visit to the doc.

[abalone at last]

After the luthier fixes it...don't hang on the wall and be sure to use plenty of this....

http://www.luckymojo.com/oil-lucky-mojo.html

[Danny]

 

[flatlander]

Yea I wouldn't trust Mojo oil from California either. Only Louisianna. That's like getting hot sauce from "New York City?"

[abalone at last]

...sorry ...my mistake...I meant Louisianna mojo oil. And keep it in the case with a damp sponge too.

[Mr_LV19E]

I don't see the difference between hanging the guitar on the wall or putting it on a stand if the room is properly humidified, they hang in music stores all the time with no problem. If my guitars were all in the cases I would have to open the closet door, carefully slide the case out, find a spot to lay the case down, get the guitar out, close the case and carefully slide the case back into the closet. All that just to play it? Too much BS, its hard enough just to find the time to grab it off the wall.

P.S. My guitars have been hanging on the wall for years with no adverse effects.