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rockstar_not
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« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2013, 11:24:06 PM »

Dave,
Thanks for the feedback. I spent a couple hours experimenting last night (far more time than I've had to spend trying to get any other capo I've ever tried to work). I tried it on every fret from 1 to 7; tried attaching it from either the bass side or the treble; tried every combination of tension on the thumbscrew, from barely hanging on to gorilla-ed down as far as I dared. No joy in any scenario.

I used the term "bend" as a catch-all for what I'm experiencing, but really any technique that moves a string horizontally has this issue -- a strong vibrato or even an aggressive pull-off that pushes a string out of its default position results in the capo holding it right where it last landed.

At this point it's not worth any more of my time. I'm always willing to give new things a try, and I'm certainly not sorry I did. Other folks seem to think highly of the G7h, and that's just fine. But for me, it's back to my trusty Shubb.

Up for sale?  I've always wanted to try one, but didn't feel like laying down that much cash.  I'm a Kyser user on my acoustics, and I had an old-school Shubb for my strat, which I lost somewhere.  I liked the Shubb's cam action.  It was elegantly simple.

-Scott
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« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2013, 04:04:16 PM »

If I have the time, I'll search through the forums and show photos of what I'm talking about.  I've been capo-ing this way with a Kyser since before 1999, when I bought my Larry.  I don't use capos on electric mostly because I'm noodling 3 and 4 string chords for the most part up the neck, and solo-ing - not having to strum away like I do on the Larry.

-Scott

Ah yes, a little search on the forum and I found the image - click for a larger version.  I submit that ANY capo can be used without pulling strings sharp, if you take the care to place it correctly.  Wrong way, sure to pull strings sharp:


Right way, will work with any capo without pulling strings sharp (but might crowd your fretting hand for open chord shapes):




neat photos, and yes, fingers get crowded, good stuff here!


I can see that I took this photo with my older Kyser.  The spring actually broke on that one, I now have one with the more 'curl-i-que' lever end, instead of the one with the hole.

I have yet to have a need to try the G7 or Bird of Paradise or other cam action capos other than the Shubb I had in my Strat case (matched the curvature and width of the fretboard a little better than these Kysers do.
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« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2013, 02:42:38 PM »

   It looks like 4 capos clipped on the end of Trace Bundy's headstock here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifw_doXLrfs&feature=em-subs_digest&list=TL0HWGWVKdVfI

It's a cool song as well.
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« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2013, 06:39:10 PM »

   It looks like 4 capos clipped on the end of Trace Bundy's headstock here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifw_doXLrfs&feature=em-subs_digest&list=TL0HWGWVKdVfI

It's a cool song as well.

Saw him in concert back in December.  He does put most of them to use.  Several are cut capos - in that he has them set so that they only fret some of the strings.  He's a class act.

-Scott
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« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2013, 01:36:17 PM »

If I have the time, I'll search through the forums and show photos of what I'm talking about.  I've been capo-ing this way with a Kyser since before 1999, when I bought my Larry.  I don't use capos on electric mostly because I'm noodling 3 and 4 string chords for the most part up the neck, and solo-ing - not having to strum away like I do on the Larry.

-Scott

Ah yes, a little search on the forum and I found the image - click for a larger version.  I submit that ANY capo can be used without pulling strings sharp, if you take the care to place it correctly.  Wrong way, sure to pull strings sharp:


Right way, will work with any capo without pulling strings sharp (but might crowd your fretting hand for open chord shapes):


I can see that I took this photo with my older Kyser.  The spring actually broke on that one, I now have one with the more 'curl-i-que' lever end, instead of the one with the hole.

I have yet to have a need to try the G7 or Bird of Paradise or other cam action capos other than the Shubb I had in my Strat case (matched the curvature and width of the fretboard a little better than these Kysers do.

I now have a G7th capo, Newport model, courtesy of a fellow forumite and I've spent about 1/2 hour trying the above method with that capo.  The width of the rubber strip is considerably more narrow than with the Kyser capos, and it's more difficult to execute this method of trying to capo directly on top of the fret wire.  That said, subjectively going back and forth between the Kyser and the G7th, it seems like the G7th allows more of the highs to ring through.  Also happy to report that the method still works for eliminating the need to re-tune the guitar once capo'ed.  I tried it all the way up to the 7th fret and had very little intonation issues on both my L-03, as well as my Epiphone Nighthawk.  I think I might like the G7th better as the end of the capo that sticks out past the high e string is lower profile and a smoother surface than the Kyser.  When using a capo so high up and making open chord shapes, things get crowded and the less capo in the way the better.  That's the only downside of capoing directly on top of the fretwire in my opinion, it can crowd your fretting hand as you get higher up the neck.  If I can resurrect my recording laptop (unlikely - I think the mobo is dead), I'll post some audio examples (doing this for my own curiosity about the difference between Kyser and G7th I thought I noticed).
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« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2013, 12:15:04 PM »

I now have a G7th capo, Newport model, courtesy of a fellow forumite and I've spent about 1/2 hour trying the above method with that capo.  The width of the rubber strip is considerably more narrow than with the Kyser capos, and it's more difficult to execute this method of trying to capo directly on top of the fret wire.  That said, subjectively going back and forth between the Kyser and the G7th, it seems like the G7th allows more of the highs to ring through.  Also happy to report that the method still works for eliminating the need to re-tune the guitar once capo'ed.  I tried it all the way up to the 7th fret and had very little intonation issues on both my L-03, as well as my Epiphone Nighthawk.  I think I might like the G7th better as the end of the capo that sticks out past the high e string is lower profile and a smoother surface than the Kyser.  When using a capo so high up and making open chord shapes, things get crowded and the less capo in the way the better.  That's the only downside of capoing directly on top of the fretwire in my opinion, it can crowd your fretting hand as you get higher up the neck.  If I can resurrect my recording laptop (unlikely - I think the mobo is dead), I'll post some audio examples (doing this for my own curiosity about the difference between Kyser and G7th I thought I noticed).






Thanks for that review, I guess that is what I have been saying all along, Nice to see others trying it out and finding the same results.
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« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2013, 01:10:37 PM »

I have always capoed just behind the fret. Surely if you capo on top of the fret the capo will tend to get more in the way of your fretting hand - and maybe the sound will be dulled?
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« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2013, 01:19:46 PM »

here's another interesting capo.

 the theory is you move the lever over an individual string, capo-ing ONLY the strings you want.

 very clever, very fun & innovative
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« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2013, 01:30:05 PM »

But it is oh so ugly blush
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« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2013, 03:55:14 PM »

There used to be this capo back in the mid to late '70s...I can't remember what it was called or who made it. But it had these two little lateral metal "wings" that were designed to help perfectly position it. You would place the capo slightly behind the fret and then slide it toward the fret until those metal winds bumped up against the fret from behind, at which point you would tighten a thumb screw on the back of the capo. In theory, it would position the capo at the optimal position just behind the fret. The selling point was that you could quickly and consistently position it.

I also remember the metal "wings" were designed to ride between the 1st and 2nd and the 5th and 6th string pairs and you could slide them from side to side to account for different string spacing and different necks.
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« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2013, 06:17:35 PM »

But it is oh so ugly blush




well, looks, schmooks, it's a cool design and offers countless "capo-esque" options......

didn't they once say Volkswagons were ugly?
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« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2013, 06:19:56 PM »




well, looks, schmooks, it's a cool design and offers countless "capo-esque" options......

didn't they once say Volkswagons were ugly?
  Aren't they still ugly
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« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2013, 07:18:37 PM »

I have always capoed just behind the fret. Surely if you capo on top of the fret the capo will tend to get more in the way of your fretting hand - and maybe the sound will be dulled?

Here's my opinion for what it's worth - capoing directly behind the fret can cause the most intonation issues of all strings going sharp, as you are pressing the string down with the hardest angle rather than capoing half-way between fret wires, or even better, capoing directly onto the fretwire itself.  Just do this yourself with a finger, push the string down to the fretboard centered between fretwires, then repeat, pushing the string all the way down to the fretwire, with you finger just behind the fretwire.  It's almost assuredly going to be more sharp when you fret right next to the wire.

If you get the capo set so the front edge of the pad is just on top of the fret wire, that's where the capo pressure is going through, not the string itself being tensioned.

Again, if I can get my recording laptop resurrected soon, I'll do some audio demos of why I'm fairly adamant about capoing onto the fret wire itself - it nearly eliminates pulling strings sharp with ANY capo.

I'll deal with a slightly less bright sound (though I'm starting to believe the G7th's narrow rubber pad might dull things a little less than my Kyser), and the slight crowding of the fretting capability, than having to retune the guitar as soon as I pop a capo on.  It takes an extra few seconds to place the capo this way (to avoid the dulling of the sound), but to me it's worth it.

Every person that I've shown this to was an instant convert to the method (maybe they changed back to their old ways once I was out of sight    ).  I'm sure I'm not the first person to capo in this way for the reason of keeping the danged guitar in tune as the primary goal.

-Scott
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« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2013, 05:27:06 PM »

Here's my opinion for what it's worth - capoing directly behind the fret can cause the most intonation issues of all strings going sharp, as you are pressing the string down with the hardest angle rather than capoing half-way between fret wires, or even better, capoing directly onto the fretwire itself.  Just do this yourself with a finger, push the string down to the fretboard centered between fretwires, then repeat, pushing the string all the way down to the fretwire, with you finger just behind the fretwire.  It's almost assuredly going to be more sharp when you fret right next to the wire.

If you get the capo set so the front edge of the pad is just on top of the fret wire, that's where the capo pressure is going through, not the string itself being tensioned.

Again, if I can get my recording laptop resurrected soon, I'll do some audio demos of why I'm fairly adamant about capoing onto the fret wire itself - it nearly eliminates pulling strings sharp with ANY capo.

I'll deal with a slightly less bright sound (though I'm starting to believe the G7th's narrow rubber pad might dull things a little less than my Kyser), and the slight crowding of the fretting capability, than having to retune the guitar as soon as I pop a capo on.  It takes an extra few seconds to place the capo this way (to avoid the dulling of the sound), but to me it's worth it.

Every person that I've shown this to was an instant convert to the method (maybe they changed back to their old ways once I was out of sight    ).  I'm sure I'm not the first person to capo in this way for the reason of keeping the danged guitar in tune as the primary goal.

-Scott





Very well said Scott.
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« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2013, 01:23:05 PM »

Scott - I appreciate your concept about capo'ing on the fret/wire, but no-one frets on the wires with their fingers so why do you need to capo there?. If the capo is not on too tight, your suggestion for setting the capo in the centre of the fret should work fine: no different than holding a barre chord.

That should be true - shouldn't it?  I just don't think that you can mimic fleshy fingers (with bone underneath) accurately enough with a capo's pressure and rubber pad (that's what seems to be common with capos).

I can capo this way up to fret 7, where the guitar starts to take on other timbre characteristics.  I can't do barre chords that well up that high, and I think my brain makes it's own pressure compensations on finger pressure depending on where I'm at on the neck and with which strings - but of course I have no way to prove this.

I did resurrect my recording laptop - I'm actually typing on it right now - so I should be able to make some recordings of this.

Here's the other aspect:  The amount of pressure needed for a 'center' capoing exercise is likely different depending which fret you are using the capo.  I have found this method to be indifferent to where one is on the neck, and works great with cheaper capos like the Kyser or any other spring loaded capo.  This G7th is a thing of beauty and smoothness, but not knowing how much the knob should be turned before applying the capo is probably not going to work for me, in a live setting, where I usually play with no capo and then add it as a sort of timbre effect on a song.

In a recording situation, where I have more time to adjust, I might do the center method and tune or adjust pressure on the knob a few times.  I don't have time for that in a live setting.
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« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2013, 09:52:54 PM »

I'm with Scott on this, although I do not go onto the crown of the fret, just up as close to it as possible.  I think what needs to happen is to prevent the capo from moving the strings downward so as to causing the strings to sharpen in pitch.  By placing the capo's pressure at the fret, there isn't enough force to overcome the resistance caused by the steep break angle of the string over the fret that is required to bend the string downward at that point enough to stretch it out of tune.  Whereas if the capo is farther back from the fret, the break angle of the string over the fret isn't steep enough to resist the downward force and the string pulls out of tune.  If you can adjust the tension of the capo, then you can probably make it work in both positions, just like our fingers adjust subconsciously.  But capos like the Kyser aren't adjustable, and ones that are aren't quick enough for live work.
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« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2013, 10:53:22 PM »

It's all relative.  To the capo, that is. 
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