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Author Topic: Why do pu's have to be so hot?  (Read 903 times)
Barefoot Rob
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« on: April 11, 2013, 02:49:19 PM »

I'm really trying to understand this.Ever electric guitar pu that sounded good to me read 6-8 ohms,they had clarity of tone and good note separation and when run thru an overdrive type pedalnthey don't sound harsh.I mean who decided that pu's had to be 12-14 ohms.This include's acoustic pu's and mic's too.When you need a preamp to get control of an acoustic pu or like the Lyric mic I've been testing.They all sound overly mid-rangy and harsh.They loose definition and always sound like there on the verge of breaking up.On top of that they hurt the ear's and as a soundman it make's my job 100X harder.Also why does everything need to be so loud?





 blush Sorry just had to let loose,I don't think it due to age because I have been using low volumn amps for years and when someone or a band is so loud that the monitors have to run so hot that there on the verge offeedback...oop's ranting again.Sorry........
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2013, 05:38:23 PM »

   Because It's Rock N Roll!    



I just couldn't help myself 
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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2013, 06:22:56 PM »

 angry Just pushin the buttons "A".




  
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2013, 09:35:21 PM »

Gotta agree with ya Rob I think the Dirtyfingers were around 15. I think they became hot in the 70's it seems,  because of heavy rock and metal I'd say.
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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2013, 02:30:48 AM »

Hmmm, not that I don't think that many pickups are hotter than they need to be but could it be an issue other than impedance?

"Impedance matching went out with vacuum tubes, Edsels and beehive hairdos. Modern transistor and op-amp stages do not require impedance matching. If done, impedance matching degrades audio performance."
     – Dennis Bohn, Rane Corporation


http://rane.com/note124.html
The thing about impedance is fender amps were low impedance amps and Gibson guitars had high impedance pu's and Gibson sounded great thru Fender amp's.As for tube's there was and may still be a fad to match them but there never was a reason for it as Leo Fender never matched a set of tube's in his amp's.As for Modern transisters an op-amps I'm glad they don't require matching but the still sound like dodo.
That said....impedance isn't the problem.Everything is being built to hotter spec's from what I can tell and I haven't found a real reason for it.When PRS come out everyone of my clients had the same complaint after a month of playing,"were's the tone".I would then lower the pu as far as I could into the guitar and all of a sudden there was "some" small amount of usable tone.
Stage volumn has gotten so loud its has become  near impossible to mix a band.Most mic's have way too much mids in there cuirut design and if there was any mic technic used by singers I'd be shocked.
Maybe I should delete this thread as its just me tired of dealing with all the stupidity...what do you all think.
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2013, 04:29:52 AM »

  Good theory.I was talking about electric pu's but also about acoustic pu's and mic's also.So I guess the real question is what ever happen to wanting tone over volumn and since tone doesn't really matter since everyone sounds the same.When my partner and I recorded our demo the guy who owned the recording gear hit this program that the booklet said was what an acoustic guitar should sound like and I almost killed him because it boosted the gain and was so over processed that it my my lovely sounding LS10 sound like dodo.
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2013, 04:59:34 AM »

Interestingly, Les Paul hardly ever used the stock pickups in the Gibson guitars that bear his name for actual recording or even for live performances.  He used low impedence pups that he designed himself.  When taking promo pictures for these guitars, or performing with them, he often covered up his customized electronics with his hands pickguards, or by other means.

He had to use amps that would accomodate the low output as opposed to your run of the mill guitar amp.  He was a big proponent of low impedence pickups.  That is one reason his recordings have such clarity and great tone.  The Les Paul Recording model, amongst a couple of other models, had low impedence pickups installed in them.  These were produced by Gibson at his urging, but they never caught on with performers.  I believe the reason was that the amp designers weren't willing to make changes to accomodate the lower output of those pickups, and players weren't interested in adding the correct electronics in the chain between a normal amp and the guitar.

Apparently, a Les Paul Recording model guitar when run through the proper pre-amp, booster transformers or whatever, then into a regular guitar amp, has fantastic tone.

(Excuse my lack of knowledge regarding the proper technical terms for these pickups and the booster stuff required, but you get the idea of what I'm talking about).
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2013, 05:15:11 PM »

Good theory.I was talking about electric pu's but also about acoustic pu's and mic's also.So I guess the real question is what ever happen to wanting tone over volumn and since tone doesn't really matter since everyone sounds the same.When my partner and I recorded our demo the guy who owned the recording gear hit this program that the booklet said was what an acoustic guitar should sound like and I almost killed him because it boosted the gain and was so over processed that it my my lovely sounding LS10 sound like dodo.
My theory is loud has become accepted as a substitute for talent. Any dweeb can crank it to 11. These days you can't even go to a small venue without painful volume levels.
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2013, 04:22:57 PM »

A day or two late into this foray. But I recall my first venture into hotter pickups was driven by the thought they'd help overdrive the amp at lower volumes. As we downsized and lowered our stage volumes, the pedals weren't quite up to the task of great ODs (not that I could find). Hence the thought that a hotter pickup would make up the difference. As it turns out, it did not; not in the LPC, not in the PRS. I've since gone back to more "standard" winds. Actually, I've gone to playing only the RS2  .  And a 15w amp on stage - at about 1/3 rd on the dial.  Works for me!
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