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rockstar_not
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« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2012, 02:04:38 PM »

FWIW, most 'Acoustic' amps are small full range amplifiers with a speaker designed to be full range, with tweed colored coverings (or brown) and usually some extra price.  Keyboard amps and powered main speakers/monitors, small PA systems are the same, full range amplifiers with a full range speaker.

Keyboard amps will lean more toward having multiple input channels (a small mixer built in essentially) for the same size package as an 'acoustic' amp , which will lean towards having some on-board effects for the guitar input channel, a channel labeled 'mic' for you vocal mic, etc.  And they generally color them brown or some other 'natural' color other than your standard black.  If you think the color makes a difference, hey, it wouldn't be the most ridiculous thing that sold a box before.

To me, keyboard amps are much more versatile boxes than 'acoustic' amps, and yes, I do keep putting the 'acoustic' in single quotes because it really is pretty silly and mostly a marketing ploy - with the differences listed above being the only real thing that separates them from small self-contained PA systems and Keyboard amplifiers.  Sonically, these devices are all designed to attempt to amplify without adding any frequency spectrum coloring to the sound.

The surest way to kill your acoustic guitar's tone is to put it through a proper electric guitar amp - where there are many factors that will significantly color the sound in usually a negative way.



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« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2012, 03:00:02 PM »

HEY NOW!!!! I love the sound of an "acoustic" guitar thru a nice old tube amp.Always sounds better then an "acoustic" guitar amp.
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« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2012, 04:35:10 PM »

WELL THEN there's a couple cool opposing theories!

cool! the other aspect of running an acoustic through a funky old tube guitar amp is, it changes the sound, and adds some very interesting harmonic overtones.
 no not for the purest of folks, but lotsa fun any way...

Something I used to tell my students, (pre thinking outside the box), was, play your electric riffs, chord changes on your acoustic (for fun and to open your mind a bit), then go and play all your acoustic diities, licks fills etc, on your electric, for the same reason.

Willie P Bennet (rip) when he toured with Fred Eaglesmith, used to run his beautiful hand made mandolin through a pedal board, adding weird efx to an otherwise straight up "folk" instrument....

 just sayin'

BTW unclrob, LOVE the theory of turning a barn door guitar into a sound port!
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rockstar_not
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« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2012, 06:44:04 AM »

HEY NOW!!!! I love the sound of an "acoustic" guitar thru a nice old tube amp.Always sounds better then an "acoustic" guitar amp.

Unclrob, I wouldn't say that this can't have a good effect, but it does change the color of the sound of the guitar significantly - particularly removing most of the high end in many cases.

Mostly what I'm trying to point out is that you can use a system designed to project full frequency spectrum (Powered monitors, Keyboard amps, small self-contained PA systems) just as well as an amp that is labeled as being designed for acoustic guitar.

Here's some speaker tech specs kind of proving this point with some popular lower priced 'acoustic' amps, the kind that one would practice with as the OP asks in the opening of the thread:

Ultrasound 15 W:    "coaxial speaker"
Vox AGA 30:  "6.5 in. full-range speaker provides optimum sound"
Fishman Loudbox Mini:  "    6.5 inch woofer,     1 inch tweeter"
Roland AC33 "two dual-cone 5" speakers"  It doesn't say that they are coaxial, but at Sweetwater there is a picture of the grille removed and sure enough, they have what we used to call 'whizzer cones' on the speakers.

etc.

You won't find many if any electric guitar amps with full range speakers, coaxial speakers, tweeter/woofer combinations, etc.  You will find that in keyboard amps - actually, they are better spec'ed usually with separate woofer/tweeter combinations.  Same can be said for powered monitors and self-contained PA systems.

Some of the lower end Peavey acoustic amps have some more tricked out features like built-in loopers (becoming more popular with artists like Trace Bundy) and other stuff which separates them from the Ultrasound type of thing.

Almost all of them are brown.  I find that kind of ridiculous.
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« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2012, 01:16:41 PM »

Almost all of them are brown.  I find that kind of ridiculous.

And I always associate brown with .... acoustic, yeah that's it. 
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« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2012, 02:25:44 PM »

And I always associate brown with .... acoustic, yeah that's it. 

I wouldn't want to be the guy at amp company X, who specs a color for the amp exterior other than brown for their 'acoustic' series, and then takes that to the marketing department.  He better be wearing some thick armor!

Actually, it looks like the brown trend is waning somewhat.  5 years ago, any amp that would appear in this classification had to have brown tolex and a tweed grille cover:   http://www.sweetwater.com/c980--Acoustic_Guitar_Amps/pn1

I'll take a little keyboard amp over an 'acoustic' amp any day in the same price range.  For the money, better spec'ed speaker setup, with more versatile usage for my needs.

-Scott
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« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2012, 02:32:37 PM »

I hear what your saying, but it's not quite THAT ubiquitous. Crates acoustic series was green with a grill like a caned chair. But AER and Fishman, the leaders in acoustic amplification (on a mass market level) have black units resembling high end stereo equipment more than electric guitar amps. But definitely not brown. True that Fender and Marshall both follow the approach you suggest.
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« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2012, 04:07:39 PM »

HEY NOW!!!! I love the sound of an "acoustic" guitar thru a nice old tube amp.Always sounds better then an "acoustic" guitar amp.


Me too. I sold my tube amp and tele last summer because I've decided to go all acoustic. But before I did, spent a good while playing my acoustic through that Ampeg Reverberocket (reissue) - single 12", 50WRMS, Svetlana EL34's with Tesla/JJ ECC83's ... loved the warm fat sound of it ... but couldn't justify keeping it when I have the Carvin Stagemate ...
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« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2012, 04:22:17 PM »

Ampeg Reverberocket (reissue) - single 12", 50WRMS, Svetlana EL34's with Tesla/JJ ECC83's ...


 drool

Ampeg fan here. You don't miss the dark side at all? A Tele through an Ampeg is one of lifes great pleasures (says the guy who just sold his original 1965 Jet a month ago)  crying
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« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2012, 09:41:00 PM »

I wouldn't want to be the guy at amp company X, who specs a color for the amp exterior other than brown for their 'acoustic' series, and then takes that to the marketing department.  He better be wearing some thick armor!

Actually, it looks like the brown trend is waning somewhat.  5 years ago, any amp that would appear in this classification had to have brown tolex and a tweed grille cover:   http://www.sweetwater.com/c980--Acoustic_Guitar_Amps/pn1

I'll take a little keyboard amp over an 'acoustic' amp any day in the same price range.  For the money, better spec'ed speaker setup, with more versatile usage for my needs.

-Scott

absolutely, thus my choice for monitor (vocal), I'm also of the feeling that ANY musical purchase might need to have some degree of versatility, some gigs it's a guitar monitor, some gigs it's a vocal monitor.

I also think acoustic amps should be "heard and not seen" matters not about the colour.

just my 2 cents....
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« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2012, 12:44:04 AM »

I hear what your saying, but it's not quite THAT ubiquitous. Crates acoustic series was green with a grill like a caned chair. But AER and Fishman, the leaders in acoustic amplification (on a mass market level) have black units resembling high end stereo equipment more than electric guitar amps. But definitely not brown. True that Fender and Marshall both follow the approach you suggest.

As did Roland, as did Ultrasound, as did most companies marketing an 'acoustic' amp.  This was before Fishman got into the amp market - which as far as I know is pretty recent.

It was ubiquitous at one time - that if you sold an amp as an amp for acoustic guitar, it was brown or at least had a grille cloth that was brown or tweed.  Black grille and silver grilles were for electric guitars!

Crate: http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/images/130U/130U-8690_front.jpg
Roland: http://www.musicoz.org/media/385-roland%20ac100.jpg
Ultrasound: http://www.guitaradoptions.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/2c8943542ef2c4c315a85c930d2c93bb.jpg
Fishman:  http://www.premierguitar.com/Stream/StreamImage.aspx?Image_ID=95C69866-D7E6-4066-9673-E81FB2670728&Image_Type=image
Peavey: http://www.bazaar-world.com/uploads/amp/44/280273293319-1.jpg
Dean Markley:  http://static.musiciansfriend.com/derivates/18/001/638/543/DV016_Jpg_Large_H76834_V.jpg  (well, that one is by Ultrasound)
Dean Markley - non Ultrasound branded from before:  http://www.jimlaabsmusic.com/images/uploads/guitarAmps/dean-markley-8-3-10-k65-1.jpg
Kustom: http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/poc/120806/926r1/2181mdd_27.jpeg

Fender models, same.
Marshall models, same.

Think of any amp company that has marketed an 'acoustic' amp and search for that company and the words 'acoustic amp' on google images, and you'll see that the older models followed the examples above.  I think Carvin might be the exception.

Actually, just do a google search on images for 'acoustic guitar amplifier' - almost without fail, for older models, it's tan/brown/tweed.  No black or silver allowed.  Bronze color backing plates for the controls also nearly ubiquitous.

It's refreshing to see that this silly trend is waning.
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« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2012, 12:50:29 AM »

absolutely, thus my choice for monitor (vocal), I'm also of the feeling that ANY musical purchase might need to have some degree of versatility, some gigs it's a guitar monitor, some gigs it's a vocal monitor.

I also think acoustic amps should be "heard and not seen" matters not about the colour.

just my 2 cents....


 +1 my power pa that I use to mic my princeton reverb also amps my acoustic and midi.I have used as a one speaker pa for a porch gig and I have used a monitor just for me and as a monitor and slave for other monitors.Very versitile.
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« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2012, 01:39:59 AM »


 drool

Ampeg fan here. You don't miss the dark side at all? A Tele through an Ampeg is one of lifes great pleasures (says the guy who just sold his original 1965 Jet a month ago)  crying


I'd miss them if their sale hadn't helped me buy something I like a whole lot more.
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« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2012, 04:17:30 AM »


I'd miss them if their sale hadn't helped me buy something I like a whole lot more.
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« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2012, 05:09:29 AM »

Me, I like the brown on my Genz Benz.

I never really wanted to play electric because I didn't like the black amps.
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« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2012, 01:50:52 PM »

Me, I like the brown on my Genz Benz.

I never really wanted to play electric because I didn't like the black amps.

Yeah but you need the black amps to play Black Dog, Paint it Black or any Black Sabbath.     
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« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2012, 01:56:37 PM »

Me, I like the brown on my Genz Benz.

I never really wanted to play electric because I didn't like the black amps.

 

I bet that genz benz sounds nice.  Interesting switch on the back for the level of the tweeter.  I bet switching it off might make it fairly useful for electric, the mids would be more dominant in the end sound.
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« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2012, 04:57:34 PM »

Acousticly I'm using an active Ibeam thru there PARA into a Soundcraft PA that is set flat.My Guild Jumbo has the Anthem SL system which so far is the best system I've heard even though I still prefer a good mic but some of the places I play they just don't work.
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« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2013, 01:45:10 PM »

Portable PA's are usually a better option to an acoustic amp.  More power, more versatility; however...  I recently considered the Mackie and a Fishman Loudbox Mini. For what I needed, to do a solo gig... plug in an acoustic guitar, a Sure mic, and my stompbox to stomp a beat, the Fishman was the best choice.  It's not like most acoustic amps I've heard, a nice natural tone at both high and low volumes.  It was price effective, the damn little thing only weighs 20 lbs, and the auxiliary 1/4" input makes it effectively a 3 channel amp when I pre-amp my stompbox.  I couldn't be happier with the tone.  I also liked the Roland AC-60 for a natural tone but the Fishman is a louder box...hence the name Loudbox!  Quick easy setup.  The tone is just as good the 50lb Fender PA and tri-pods we lug around when for our duo gigs.  The Mackie's are nice too but more costly, no built in reverb for singing.
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« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2013, 03:55:01 PM »

My fingers 

( welcome )
uWell, same here. Only use amplification when doing gigs. We practice acoustically.
At gig's us SR Technogies RA 400. 5 chan mixer with plenty of ins and outs, built in effects, delay reverb, Can take 3 xlr's. Has great front end for passive pickups. requires no preamp or DI. Smaller units are now available in US (had to get mine from Italy) I can't remember which company picked them up for US distribution . They got rave reviews though at NAMM last year, I think it was.
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