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Author Topic: Recording equipment  (Read 3607 times)
Michael T
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« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2011, 02:09:43 PM »

The interface is for capturing the signal, your download program is usually best used in wave format and edited thru the software program.
 
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Denis
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« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2011, 02:11:34 PM »

Hi Denis,

Do you have a version of this without reverb?

Actually, I do but I don't have it with me at work.  I'll post it later
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claudefr
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« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2011, 03:26:24 PM »

Hi Denis,

I think you can read french. I you want, read this article. It will lead you to differents techniques of recording with two mics.

http://voyard.free.fr/textes_audio/pds_stereo.htm

The world of recording is facinating. You will have a lot of fun.

Claude
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Denis
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« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2011, 04:31:31 PM »

Hi Denis,

I think you can read french. I you want, read this article. It will lead you to differents techniques of recording with two mics.

http://voyard.free.fr/textes_audio/pds_stereo.htm

The world of recording is facinating. You will have a lot of fun.

Claude
Merci Claude, et oui, bien sur, je lis le francais!

J'ai hate d'etre rendu un plus loin dans mes enregistrements.  De trouver le bon placement des micro...etc.  Mais, comme on le sais deja, c'est un jour a la fois! 
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rockstar_not
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« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2011, 07:21:01 PM »

Thanks guys.  I'm still learning obviously.  I was starting to get used to using one mic through a simple signal adapter.  Now I have to learn new mic'ing techniques, stereo...etc.  Is it any wonder I don't want to start having to figure out Logic at the same time?   

I'm going to try playintg around with different mic placements and maybe try some different rooms in the house.  It's pretty easy when all there is to move are a couple of mic stands and the interface. 

Denis,

There are other ways to record a 'stereo' signal of your acoustic playing.  Another popular method is to put a mic at the pretty standard 12th fret , 20-30 cm away from fretboard, angled toward the sound hole for mic one, then the 2nd one would be on a stand so that it's to the right of your right ear up at your head location about 30 cm away from your head, angled at the soundhole as well.

One rule of thumb that works fairly well to avoid phase issues if you are just doing a multi-mic recording of a single source:  The distance between microphones should be 3 times the distance from the closest mic to the source.

So, if your fretboard mic is the one closest to the guitar at 20-30 cm away from the fretboard, then make sure the distance between mics is 60-90 cm apart. 
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Denis
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« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2011, 07:41:50 PM »

Denis,

There are other ways to record a 'stereo' signal of your acoustic playing.  Another popular method is to put a mic at the pretty standard 12th fret , 20-30 cm away from fretboard, angled toward the sound hole for mic one, then the 2nd one would be on a stand so that it's to the right of your right ear up at your head location about 30 cm away from your head, angled at the soundhole as well.

One rule of thumb that works fairly well to avoid phase issues if you are just doing a multi-mic recording of a single source:  The distance between microphones should be 3 times the distance from the closest mic to the source.

So, if your fretboard mic is the one closest to the guitar at 20-30 cm away from the fretboard, then make sure the distance between mics is 60-90 cm apart. 
I actually tried that the other day.  That was the first way I set up the mics.  The one set up near my head was set to omni-directional.  It sounded pretty cool.
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Denis
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« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2011, 09:22:27 PM »

Thanks for all the replies.  Here's the clean version, no reverb but there is a bit of compression and EQ.  I remixed it a bit, scaled it back, took out the second figure 8 track. Funny, when I tried to upload it to Reverbnation, 3 times, it wasn't the clean version.  I upload it to Soundclick and it works.  Maybe I should upload the rest of my stuff to Soundclick?   Is there a site that's "best" sound-wise?



http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=10886880&q=hi&newref=1
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rockstar_not
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« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2011, 12:34:39 AM »

Thanks for all the replies.  Here's the clean version, no reverb but there is a bit of compression and EQ.  I remixed it a bit, scaled it back, took out the second figure 8 track. Funny, when I tried to upload it to Reverbnation, 3 times, it wasn't the clean version.  I upload it to Soundclick and it works.  Maybe I should upload the rest of my stuff to Soundclick?   Is there a site that's "best" sound-wise?



http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=10886880&q=hi&newref=1

Denis - two things:

1.  For the shoulder mic - try it in the cardioid pattern - this version has a 'small room' sound to it that is likely from the omni setting picking up the early reflections off of the ceiling.  Also change up whatever floor treatment you had in place.  If it was carpet, get a sheet of plywood to sit on while playing/recording, and vice versa.  Also, if you record in that clothes closet that's going to be your best bet.  You can always add 'room' sound with reverb later, but you can't take it out of a recording if it's in there to begin with.

2.  I don't believe you'll find much difference between upload sites.  I like SoundCloud for it's unique interface as it allows for comments on the songs right on the timeline of the song.
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« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2011, 08:37:33 AM »

Hi Denis,

I much prefer this version without the reverb.


Thanks for all the replies.  Here's the clean version, no reverb but there is a bit of compression and EQ.  I remixed it a bit, scaled it back, took out the second figure 8 track. Funny, when I tried to upload it to Reverbnation, 3 times, it wasn't the clean version.  I upload it to Soundclick and it works.  Maybe I should upload the rest of my stuff to Soundclick?   Is there a site that's "best" sound-wise?

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=10886880&q=hi&newref=1

Do you have the version available without the compression and EQ?

With the EQ - did you boost anything?
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Denis
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« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2011, 02:36:01 PM »

Send me a PM with your email and I'll send you a completely dry, everything set to 0.0db version of the recording. 

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flatlander
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« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2011, 05:19:58 AM »

2 mics are great. Just play with locations. Every guitar is different. Won't hurt anything to play with different positions including both being closer to each other. I find that the phase difference can be a plus. Somebody may want to shoot me but...up til now I have one tube preamp. (I have TL AUDio dual chan arriving this week, yeh)
A tube knocks the phase out 180 degrees. Can't have more of a phase difference between the preamped mic and the direct mic.. I could fix it but only hear them bucking when on top of each other. If both in same location they almost cancel each other out, but when spread to 9:00 and 3:00 or more, it adds a depth and a shimmer to sound. And it sounds natural. Use no reverb at all on acoustic guitar. It's like a natural sounding effect. Your guitar sounds great on all your recordings because, well. you're a great guitar player. I'd like to see you get the most out of mic placement and as little reverb as possible. (or none) I recorded a good fingerpicker long ago and actually used 2 mics AND pickup. Big sound and shimmering as each source has stronger and weaker notes coming thru than the others.
If you can swing it get a quality tube (valve) preamp/compressor. A good one is not cheap. I have one TL Audio single channel and the dual chan ariives tomorrow. They make a big difference on guitar and vocals or about anything else you record. !500.00 bucks though for dual chan. The ones big name studios use are like 3000.00 for single chan. TL Audio is good.
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Denis
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« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2011, 12:06:50 PM »

HHmmmm...don't think I'll be spending that kind of dough just yet...I spent $500 on the mic and interface last week.  I think I'm done spending for now!  I need to spend more time recording.
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Michael T
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« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2011, 12:48:46 PM »

HHmmmm...don't think I'll be spending that kind of dough just yet...I spent $500 on the mic and interface last week.  I think I'm done spending for now!  I need to spend more time recording.

You got a great interface with 4 channel preamps, clean as they come, just work on positioning, rooms do strange things to sound. I had one room that had very bad recording acoustics, but hang a blanket "behind" me and it was really good.
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rockstar_not
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« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2011, 01:24:57 PM »

You got a great interface with 4 channel preamps, clean as they come, just work on positioning, rooms do strange things to sound. I had one room that had very bad recording acoustics, but hang a blanket "behind" me and it was really good.

Michael is right on.  Also play with the settings on your multi-pattern mic.  I really think you should consider turning off the omni setting.  Normally, you don't want to have such strong early reflections as you have in your latest clip posting.  Put the pattern on the cardioid setting and aim it at the sound hole, but at the same distance you are working in.

Also, enable the hi pass filters on both mics and even think about putting in a high pass at the front of the signal chain in your DAW software and play around with the cutoff frequency.  You'll be amazed at how much boxiness you can eliminate or introduce, just with that setting alone on acoustic guitars.

That walk-in closet is going to be your best friend if it's full of clothes. 
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Denis
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« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2011, 01:37:12 PM »

I know the closet is the best room in the house for recording.  It is full of clothes.  As soon as I walk into it, it's dead.  My problem is that access is not always easy.  My wife likes to watch TV in the bedroom not to mention I'd need a couple items...table/chair, set up time is longer too.  The spare room is easier in that I can leave it completely set up and bring the Macbook and plug everything in.  Ready in 2 min. 

High pass?  Will that get rid of harsh treble?
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rockstar_not
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« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2011, 08:14:17 PM »

I know the closet is the best room in the house for recording.  It is full of clothes.  As soon as I walk into it, it's dead.  My problem is that access is not always easy.  My wife likes to watch TV in the bedroom not to mention I'd need a couple items...table/chair, set up time is longer too.  The spare room is easier in that I can leave it completely set up and bring the Macbook and plug everything in.  Ready in 2 min. 

High pass?  Will that get rid of harsh treble?

No, it will get rid of low frequency boom/boxiness.  The 'harsh treble' that you might be hearing is likely the early reflections I've been referring to. 

Denis, your playing is excellent.  Your guitar is excellent.  The recording equipment you have is generally better than what has been commonly available 20 years ago and there were fine acoustic guitar recordings done 20+ years ago. 

What is not excellent is the room you are trying to record in.  The last thing you want to do is 'capture the room' in your situation.  Turn the multi-pattern 2050 mic switch to the cardioid position and aim the capsule toward the soundhole.  There are a couple of reasons for this.

1.  You'll see on the spec sheet for the mic http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/fb4dbcab747f4176/index.html  that the cardioid position has a little more flat frequency reponse, where the Omni hypes the highs ever so slightly more than the other settings.

2.  You do not want to record the reflections off of the ceiling.  This will be apparent mostly in the mid highs and highs and can make for a brittle or harsh sound in addition to giving one the sound of a small room.  The omni position will record those reflections with much more gain than the cardioid position.  Just give this a try - I think you'll be pleased with the results.

I am assuming you know where the capsule is in both mics.  Both are side-address microphones.  You may have to experiment to see which side is the 'live' side when in the cardioid position.  Easy to do with some headphones on - just talk while turning the microphone around in your hand.  While in the cardioid position, you'll hear it get significantly louder on the live side in the headphones.
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Denis
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« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2011, 09:54:09 PM »

I was listening to my prior recordings last night, the ones where I was using one mic in cardioid and they sound fine.  Not as much of the "room".  Two mics in cardioid, next on my list.  Had to try it in omni and figure 8 regardless.  New mic and all.  Experimenting is fun even if it doesn't sound like Daniel Lanois produced it.   

I'm going to try the walk-in closet one day too. It's kind of cramped, I'll wait until it's cooler, this fall.  I'll be trying some omni/cardioid mic placements then!

Thanks rockstar_not, Michael T and ST for listening and critiquing. 
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flatlander
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« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2011, 09:59:33 PM »

Good info in this thread! I guess the deal I was doing leaving one of the mics 180 out was a cheap version of the mid side recording. I'm anxious to do it properly now. Please update with things you learn. I'm going to be doing a lot of recording thru end of year. The tons of songs I wrote over the last year, I recorded VERY quickly after writing. A lot of them I'm going to redo parts on or even start over and also recording duet. So I'll be trying to soak up ideas.

 If you can get that mid side method going with the punch in the middle and the shimmers from the sides, well, I'd like to hear it. Play with the panning. If singing especially,
you may not be dead center with your direct to the sound hole mic, but from my non-pro experience as long as the 180 signals are across from each other, it's good.
 For example instead of 9:00 and 3:00 they could be 10:00 and 4:00 or 11:00 and 5:00 etc. Or they can always have more spread than than. Just my doodling around experience.
   Wheee gotta go. The UPS truck just pulled up with  http://www.tlaudio.co.uk/docs/products/C-1.shtml
TL audio has cheaper models. My current one is Ivory series single chan and it sounds great. OK I'll start a different thread on it! Your playing is an Inspiration Denis. So good and usually with a sense of joy. Anxious to hear recordings this fall.
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Denis
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« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2011, 11:30:18 PM »

I'm just getting used to recording.  There's as much to learn and as many ways to do things as there are for the guitar!  I like to think I'm just getting started.  I haven't got anything new in the works unfortunately.  Hopefully, something will just appear out of nowhere.  Seems like that's the way it usually happens. 
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