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Author Topic: A plug for Bob Colosi  (Read 3564 times)
jimmyb
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« on: March 10, 2011, 11:00:22 PM »

All,
I just put a Colosi Elephant Ivory saddle on my P-05 and what a difference. My P-05's brightness has always bothered me some (even though my P-05 came from Larrivee with a bone nut and saddle), so I was looking at Bob's site over the weekend and his description of elephant ivory's characteristics sound like what I needed. Not only did the new saddle warm the guitar up a great deal, the guitar is more balanced and the B and E strings are so much richer. It took about an hour to sand the saddle down and get the action where it was before, if you are not handy, you should probably get your luthier to do it so you don't waste a good saddle. Or try it...just remember "Measure twice, cut once"

Jimmy
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« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2011, 01:03:07 AM »

Great guy, great product 

John
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broKen
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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2011, 02:10:14 AM »

Bob is a great guy. I've been a customer more than a few times.
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jimmyb
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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2011, 03:33:55 AM »

  From all the improvements you have noted here it sounds like the saddle you had in it was junk.

Nope, it was bone. 

The saddle that came in the guitar was fine. Thisnew saddle is better.

Jimmy

 
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Kremona Fandango FG630CW
Landau Parlor
Pono 0000-30SP
Ramsay Classical
Neil Gardiner Parlor
Neil Gardiner Concert
Gretsch 6120-1959TV
Darren Hippner Flamenco

and the ukes:
Kanilea K3 Koa Super Concert
Kanilea K1 Tenor Custom (Claro Walnut)
Kanilea K1 Tenor Custom (Koa)
Mainland Tenor
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jimmyb
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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2011, 04:53:58 AM »

   Apparently it's better. But the list of improvements is quite an accomplishment. So it makes me think the "bone" saddle that was replaced was not correct.
   Even a tusq or plastic saddle can improve tone and intonation over a poorly made bone saddle.

Dan,
You seem to be itching to call BS on my post, so, before you do, please be clear that this new saddle did NOT turn my P-05 into a Henderson, it simply made the guitar sound better (fuller, richer, more "mature"). It is my thought that the new material (elephant ivory) is better saddle material for a small body guitar (many of which, like my Larrivee, suffer from too much brightness and not enough "fat"). Based on what this new saddle did to my Parlor, I could make the case that elephant ivory would NOT be a great material for a large body guitar (which probably needs some crispness). There was nothing wrong with the bone saddle that came in the guitar. I say that because I installed a UST and the bone saddle required very little work to get proper string balance (very flat bottom on the stock saddle, snug fit,  and good intonation...that pretty much covers a saddle's entire job description).


Jimmy

PS. At the end of the day, I feel the new saddle is well worth the under $50 it costs if  a Larrivee Parlor owner wants to fatten up their guitar. If said owner likes the "jangle and tingle", they should not come within 100 miles of this modification
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Ramsay Classical
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Neil Gardiner Concert
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Darren Hippner Flamenco

and the ukes:
Kanilea K3 Koa Super Concert
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« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2011, 05:40:59 AM »

Dan,
The OP simply stated the ivory saddle gave the guitar some warmth and reduced the brightness on his guitar.  He never said one saddle is better than the other, only that they are different sounding.  Why is this a problem for you?  Surely, there must be some logical reason for Colosi offering saddles made of both bone and ivory.  If they sounded the same, why bother offering both materials in the first place?

Just my two cents as a forum member.
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broKen
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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2011, 06:01:52 AM »

Daniel, you should try ivory sometime. I'm thinking of getting a FWI blank for my oo-03. It doesn't have the note separation and crispness I'd like to hear. Light strumming sounds nice, but just a little ,,,,fuzzy? Capoed up a few frets sounds beautiful though.
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BenF
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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2011, 08:10:19 AM »

FWIW, I found the Colosi saddle I put in my OM made a pretty spectacular difference. I would add that the one it replaced was uneven on the bottom, and too narrow for the slot, which would have contributed to poor tone.

However, I have made my own saddles from bone blanks since, and the consistency of bone density from Bob is far in advance of just any old bone. He knows his product, and sells the best of the best. Even with the cost of overseas shipping, it is worth it for superior tone.

Just my opinion.
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frankhond
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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2011, 09:22:39 AM »

A saddle can sound overly bright if the edge where the strings touch is overly sharp. I think it is important to state that no matter what Bob says about his ivory, the situation in Africa is such that nobody can guarantee the source, how it was harvested etc. So the question is how much the material itself contributes to the improvement as opposed to other factors, and whether it's worth it.

In any case, Bobs bone saddles are excellent.
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BenF
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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2011, 11:24:29 AM »

settle doon Danny!  I quite enjoy the debates about saddles.  I think the quality of the bone counts for a lot.  What BC does is provide consistant quality and excellent instructions for the novice saddle fitter.  great service, and a great guy.  I don't think anyone debated that.

I appreciate your comments greatly, as a guy who has restored many guitars and is well placed to note the differences in tone.  THAT is not a reflection on BC in any way.  I prefer the sound of bone in my guitars, some prefer other materials.  What Bob Colossi says on his site is that great guitars are often let down by cheap nuts, saddles and bridge pins.  You and I know that, most people on this forum know that.  Most guitar owners probably don't. 

The magnitude of change in tone is another matter.

Please don't delete your comments.
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jimmyb
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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2011, 02:11:04 PM »

Dan,
Well...I don't know where to go with this. You implied that I'm Bob's shill (I guess post counts in the thousands eliminate that chance, since I'm at 147, I'm fair game) and I overstated the saddle's worth on MY Parlor. Well, MY Larrivee sounds BETTER to MY EARS with the new saddle.....OK? Jeez...If you need a number, I would say that my guitar sounds 15% better.

BTW, if I came on here and said "I put Elixers on my Esteban and it sounds better than my cousin's pre-war D-45 now" than everyone should jump me. I now like my Larrivee Parlor better, and I'm sorry you can't just wrap your arms around that rather than trying to explain saddles to me (a guitarist for 40+ years and I assure you, I understand how they work). This notion that players are just players and don't understand the mechanics of a guitar infuriates me. Anyway, I'm mad and tired of defending something I did to MY guitar that, in my opinion (which is what matters since it's my guitar) improved the tone.

Jimmy


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and the ukes:
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2011, 02:33:19 PM »

Different guitars respond differently to modifications. Bob's site mentioned WAHI is the harder of the materials, but almost sonically identical to the FWI. When I replaced my FWI with one it sounded pretty d... different to me and in a good way, balanced better and better volume with the sustain holding it's tuning thru most of the decay. My 12er loves bone,smooth and warm, not jangly at all, an orchestral in a box. So my two larrivees have different components but they are different designs. BTW they both are matched nuts, saddles, pins and had new tuners put in along with full fret dressing all done by a reputable tech.
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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2011, 02:34:29 PM »

Dan,
Well...I don't know where to go with this. You implied that I'm Bob's shill (I guess post counts in the thousands eliminate that chance, since I'm at 147, I'm fair game) and I overstated the saddle's worth on MY Parlor. Well, MY Larrivee sounds BETTER to MY EARS with the new saddle.....OK? Jeez...If you need a number, I would say that my guitar sounds 15% better.

BTW, if I came on here and said "I put Elixers on my Esteban and it sounds better than my cousin's pre-war D-45 now" than everyone should jump me. I now like my Larrivee Parlor better, and I'm sorry you can't just wrap your arms around that rather than trying to explain saddles to me (a guitarist for 40+ years and I assure you, I understand how they work). This notion that players are just players and don't understand the mechanics of a guitar infuriates me. Anyway, I'm mad and tired of defending something I did to MY guitar that, in my opinion (which is what matters since it's my guitar) improved the tone.

Jimmy



 OK, I'll delete all my posts. I don't think you are a shill or anything of the sort. I just have my view on parlors and how much a saddle change is capable of.
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2011, 02:56:02 PM »

I found the way he does his saddles doesn't follow the radius the way it should on Larrivees. I can't remember anyone ever posting about this except me.

Better quality overall than what Larrivee sends in their bone saddles though. He was responsive and did another exactly as I wanted.
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BenF
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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2011, 03:21:11 PM »

Hadden, do you find the B and high E strings sit low? That was my experience, and it looked odd, but it played beautifully and there was no buzz at all, so I just went with it.  It was like tge radius of tge saddle was flat on the treble side.
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broKen
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« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2011, 07:09:50 PM »

I found the way he does his saddles doesn't follow the radius the way it should on Larrivees.


What radius should a saddle be made at for a compound radius fretboard?
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jimmyb
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« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2011, 07:42:39 PM »

Hadden, do you find the B and high E strings sit low? That was my experience, and it looked odd, but it played beautifully and there was no buzz at all, so I just went with it.  It was like tge radius of tge saddle was flat on the treble side.

My saddle is the same way but the guitar plays fine.

Jimmy
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Eastman Pagelli PG2 archtop
Kremona Fandango FG630CW
Landau Parlor
Pono 0000-30SP
Ramsay Classical
Neil Gardiner Parlor
Neil Gardiner Concert
Gretsch 6120-1959TV
Darren Hippner Flamenco

and the ukes:
Kanilea K3 Koa Super Concert
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hadden
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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2011, 01:08:47 PM »

Hadden, do you find the B and high E strings sit low? That was my experience, and it looked odd, but it played beautifully and there was no buzz at all, so I just went with it.  It was like tge radius of tge saddle was flat on the treble side.

Yes, especially the e. Makes it difficult to set action just right. I could also feel the drop off on my picking hand, and fretting up the neck. Not a huge deal though. He quickly made me another with a better slope.

I should also say, a luthier recently remarked the radius on my 2004 Lv-03r (I've had a couple colosi saddles just on that one)  is unusually flat, even for a Larrivee. Like a 24. Different from my newer L-03.
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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2011, 05:10:31 PM »

The tech/Luther who did my WAHI said he had noted a bit of upturn on the outside edges of the bridge tray for the saddle that took a bit of time ti fit. He mentioned he could of left it completely flat and likely not had any issue but noticed it before he stared. That bugger is in there but with a bit of tugging I can get it out without pliers. I don't know if that is a common trait but was glad he picked up on it.
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« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2011, 06:30:50 AM »

Ordered a bone saddle from Bob Colosi and he is Great to do business with - fast ship, well packed and nice product - again about an hour sanding and fitting to replace the stock tusq on my L-03 and sounds better to my ear and looks a little classier to my eye.   
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