LARRIVEE NECK ANGLE QUESTION

[Waxer]

I am in the market for an OM acoustic. I have it down to a Martin OM 21 or a Larrivee OM 60. I have checked out 4 different Larrivee acoustic guitars recently. All of them had moderate high action and very little saddle left to cut. The string break angle at the saddle was already a little low especially at the high E string. So removing any more saddle would compromise the string break angle at the saddle as well. All other adjustments neck relief and nut slots looked OK. I can only suspect that the neck angle must be shallow. All of the new Larrivee guitars I looked at were the same in regards to action.  Does Larrivee set all their neck angles shallow?  If so can someone explain to me the advantage of this? I would like to add that the Larrivee guitars played well and were a joy to play. I am concerned about how I can lower the action if needed. I usually go with a 3/32 low E and a 2/32 high E.
Thank you for any opinions here         

[Mr_LV19E]

The Larrivee should be just like any other guitar, a straight edge laid on the fingerboard (with all relief removed) should land right on top of the bridge assuming the guitar has been stored in the correct humidity.  My LV falls just below the bridge but still allows me the action I like on that guitar 5/64" for high E and 6/64" for low E with enough saddle left for good break angle. My other Larrivees the straight edge falls right on top of the bridge.

[Zohn]

I have checked out 4 different Larrivee acoustic guitars recently. All of them had moderate high action and very little saddle left to cut. The string break angle at the saddle was already a little low especially at the high E string. So removing any more saddle would compromise the string break angle at the saddle as well. All other adjustments neck relief and nut slots looked OK. I can only suspect that the neck angle must be shallow. All of the new Larrivee guitars I looked at were the same in regards to action.  Does Larrivee set all their neck angles shallow?  If so can someone explain to me the advantage of this? I would like to add that the Larrivee guitars played well and were a joy to play. I am concerned about how I can lower the action if needed. I usually go with a 3/32 low E and a 2/32 high E.
Thank you for any opinions here        

Waxer your concern is valid.
William Cumpiano wrote some good articles on a good neck angle. http://www.cumpiano.com/Home/Newsletters/archive.html
One of my Lavs has the same problem as described by you - the action is as low as it possibly can be @ similar action settings than you mentioned, with minimum saddle protruding and virtually no break angle on the high-E string. That results in low pressure on the saddle, and the low saddle results in low torque on the bridge which effects the tone.
I'm upset about that because the inevitable solution seems to be a neck reset on an instrument which is only 5 years old and has been taken care of in the best possible way.  
I reckon ask the store manager/salesman for a tech to do a quick check as described by Mr_LV19E in the shop.
If the straight edge lands below the bridge's edge with not much saddle protruding, walk away and search for a better one.

[Longridge]

OK.  Here is another question regarding the fretboard -- what gives when the straightedge is placed on the fretboard and it rocks (isn't flat against the frets starting where the neck meets the guitar body ?       It makes it hard to judge the actual bridge position in relation to the fretboard but more importantly what causes this - is it the neck adjustment rod?

[Mr_LV19E]

OK.  Here is another question regarding the fretboard -- what gives when the straightedge is placed on the fretboard and it rocks (isn't flat against the frets starting where the neck meets the guitar body ?       It makes it hard to judge the actual bridge position in relation to the fretboard but more importantly what causes this - is it the neck adjustment rod?

That is normal, the fret board ramps down slightly from the neck body joint to keep the strings from buzzing when playing any of those frets. When checking neck angle you first have to take all relief out of the neck, then put the straight edge on the frets leading up to the body. If you rock  the straight edge down on the frets over the body it will appear that the neck is set wrong. In other words the straight edge will not meet at the top of the bridge, it will fall below that point. Hope this explains it.

[Zohn]

If your straight edge is long enough (mine is 1m long)and you merely want to determine whether there might be a problem with the neck angle, some relief in the neck shouldn't bother much - the reference line is from the first fret at the nut over the neck/body joint which could be the 12th or the 14th fret depending on the guitar model.
I agree that there shouldn't be relief in the neck if you need a precise measurement for doing a re-set.
The amount of material to cut away at the neck heel could be as little as 0,5mm to lift the neck angle at the bridge by 2mm.

[Longridge]

Thanks folks.  That clears up my concern -- I'm learning all the time.  I recently had the guitar checked out for buzzes and the luthier slightly adjusted the neck truss rod so that is probably what I am detecting and it appears exactly as you stated.  When I checked our other guitars' necks they were as straight as an arrow so checking the neck angle has always been a snap - thus the question.  The guitar in question is a higher end model with specs for fingerstyle -- perhaps this feature is part of the details that make it special.

On another note.... I have a Michael Kelly variable neck dread that needed some adjustment to the neck during the winter after it went thru a dry spell earlier this winter while hanging on the wall.  It may be one of the few guitars around that, although not the most expensive or desireable, is beautiful to look at with it's curly maple and has the ability for the neck to be fully adjustable with a hex nut that is attached to the back of the headstock.  This is the first time we have actually done an adjustment and the action is still good.