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Author Topic: Short Scale 00-30R Update (Long)  (Read 5254 times)
zpcm04
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« on: October 17, 2010, 12:06:16 AM »

Some of you may recall me posting that I recently decided to downsize from two full-size Taylors (GS8 and 310) to one of the short scale 00-03Rs being offered by LA Guitar Sales.  Well, I have had the 00 for about a month and have finally had time to put it down and take a few pictures and summarize some thoughts.

First off, my only reason for trading the Taylors was shoulder pain because of the larger body size.  I was very pleased with the guitars otherwise.  I went with the Larrivee over a Taylor GC because it was smaller and because I have enjoyed my Larrivee P-03R parlor so much.

Tone
Tonally, it seems much more like the Taylor GS than the parlor, which is a little surprising since it is closer in size to the parlor.

It is resonant (or whatever you want to call it) on a G#.  Still being relatively new to all this, I don't yet have the entire fret board memorized, but I could definitely tell you where the G#'s were when I first got it.  My Taylors were like this on F and the parlor on B.  However, of all the guitars mentioned, it is least discernible on the 00. 

After about a week, I installed a Colosi bone saddle and swapped the light gauge strings that came on it for medium Elixir nanoweb strings.  The changes produced a fuller richer bass, clearer note separation and more overtones.  I had a local tech/luthier set it up and tweek the intonation of the new saddle and the G# thing mentioned above is all but gone.
Definitely an improvement.

Size
The body size is much easier on my shoulders.  I am glad that I stuck with an 00 and did not choose an 000 or OM.  The 00 scale length of 24.75” is noticeably longer than the parlor’s 24, but noticeably shorter than the GS’s 25.5, so a good compromise.

Wood Selection
Wood selection was not what I expected.  Not that it was bad, just different (kindof like ordering Bar-B-Q in another part of the country).  The lower bout of the top has some bear claw, which is different.  The back and side wood is not the typical Larrivee dark, almost black EIR.  It is lighter with very pronounced grain lines.  I was just expecting something like my parlor, which I really like.  Ted said he really thought that Larrivee used 09 level wood on these.  However, I don't really have a point of reference to validate his comment.  Bottom line, it's probably more cosmetic than anything.  Regardless, because the guitar sounds so good, the different than expected wood has grown on me.

Fit/Finish/Quality Control
I have not found the quality control issues that I have seen expressed elsewhere on this forum regarding the various runs Larrivee 03’s.  Fitting of neck to body and binding to body is spot on.  I have only noticed three minor flaws.  First, there is a little more glue squeeze out around the braces inside the guitar body than on the parlor (nothing out of character for the lowest trim level of a mass produced guitar).  Second, there was a fair amount of overspray on the top.  Matthew at Larrivee said it was ok to just give it a light buffing with 0000 steel wool and it came right off.  Lastly, I found that the depth of the nut slots was not consistent, particularly the B string.  Trying to fret it at the first fret was like fretting a razor blade.  Set up took care of that, though.

LA Guitar Sales
I highly recommend Ted.  Very responsive and patient.  It was a smooth transaction and I would not hesitate to buy another guitar from him.  I also really like the appointments he spec’d out on this model, particularly the rosewood binding.

In summary, I can honestly say that buying the 00-03R was the right decision for me; no pain and no regrets.

Attached are a few obligatory pictures.












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gitnoob
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2010, 12:20:03 AM »

It is resonant (or whatever you want to call it) on a G#.  Still being relatively new to all this, I don't yet have the entire fret board memorized, but I could definitely tell you where the G#'s were when I first got it.  My Taylors were like this on F and the parlor on B.  However, of all the guitars mentioned, it is least discernible on the 00.

Very interesting part of your review -- most people don't mention this aspect of a guitar, but it's a fundamental aspect of the construction.

The nasal open B on the Parlor is the only thing that bugged me about it.    It's the Helmholtz resonance of the air cavity.    I finally found a Parlor (my current O-50) where it's not as pronounced, and I think it's due to the slightly deeper body which changes the air cavity resonance.
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zpcm04
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2010, 12:36:17 AM »

gitnoob,
It was also almost a deal breaker for me on the parlor.  Just bugged me because that B was in so many chords that I played.  I spoke to Matthew at Larrivee about it and he confirmed something that I had read on various forums about this topic.  Many of these things diminish as a guitar is played in and ages (basically things don't vibrate at the same frequencies they once did).  So I made a point to strum it every night for around 30 minutes for a month.  The B note has definitely improved.  There is not the "thunk" there once was on initial attack and the note has more sustain than it did.  Not perfect, but it is coming along.
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broKen
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2010, 04:42:39 AM »

hey zpcm04, thanks for the review and pictures. My oo-03R is just a few weeks old. The size is perfect, playability, and construction are top notch. I could wish the top were sitka instead of Italian. The rosewood on yours is striking. Glad you like your new guitar.
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Wepeel
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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2010, 03:17:54 PM »

Nice writeup.  The wood on yours is beautiful!  I've got a pretty beefy resonance peak centered around A.  Trails off right around G and B.

How do you identify overspray?
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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2010, 04:38:12 PM »

I really like that guitar.
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zpcm04
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2010, 07:46:18 PM »

Wepeel,
Overspray is a slight roughness in the finished surface. 

Here's my understanding of overspray from painting cars as a kid (not sure if this is exactly what happens with guitars, though).  Overspray is a roughness "on" the finish that occurs when partially cured finish droplets land on an already finished area.  The droplets are still sticky enough to adhere to the surface, but don't really bond with the surface.  Since it is not really bonded, it rubs off with just a little effort.
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ryler
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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2010, 11:41:56 PM »

I really like the looks of yours.  I see what you mean about he color of the rosewood being lighter and more pronounced striping because of the contrast of light to dark, but it's quite striking.  Very nice, indeed.  I'm with you on the size as it affects shoulders.  Very comfortable.  Glad you're happy with yours. 
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Dotneck
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« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2010, 12:39:24 AM »


Wood Selection
Wood selection was not what I expected.  Not that it was bad, just different (kindof like ordering Bar-B-Q in another part of the country).  The lower bout of the top has some bear claw, which is different.  The back and side wood is not the typical Larrivee dark, almost black EIR.  It is lighter with very pronounced grain lines.  I was just expecting something like my parlor, which I really like. 

Not sure what your parlor looked like but that's a beautiful chunk of rosewood! Thanks for sharing...
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Stephen Basil
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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2010, 12:40:27 AM »

I agree that it's a very good looking guitar.
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zpcm04
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« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2010, 01:38:28 AM »

Here's the back of the parlor.  It kindof has a look of cocobolo.

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gitnoob
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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2010, 09:57:53 PM »

The back and side wood is not the typical Larrivee dark, almost black EIR.  It is lighter with very pronounced grain lines.  I was just expecting something like my parlor, which I really like.

I often see that lighter EIR on older Larrivees.    You'll also see it on some of the 1970ish Martins right after they switched from Brazilian.

The EIR on your parlor is the more common "new" EIR.    Maybe Larrivee went deep into the old stash for the custom 00's.  
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maLavvo
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« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2010, 01:36:29 AM »

Great review!  Thanks.

You're right, I have OM-03R and LV-09, both are RW but very different from what you have on your OO-03R. It's beautiful.  Not sure if it is just in the picture, but it looks to me that the color and the grain is very close to my Taylor GA4 (Ovankul Back/Sides).

Enjoy!
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Dotneck
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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2010, 02:51:38 AM »

I often see that lighter EIR on older Larrivees.    You'll also see it on some of the 1970ish Martins right after they switched from Brazilian.

The EIR on your parlor is the more common "new" EIR.    Maybe Larrivee went deep into the old stash for the custom 00's.   

The way I see it is that all sorts of rosewoods and spruces that years ago would have been rejected are now making it onto production guitars. The 00 is the kind of rosewood that was commonplace on older guitars...while the rosewood on the parlor is now seen more often. In fact, my rosewood F3 has wood very similar to the darker variety that's on the parlor.

What I find kind of interesting...is that even though these woods might have been rejected years ago...they are now accepted more readily and sometimes even more desirable than what used to be graded as higher quality woods....

The same thing happens with spruces...where in the old days spruce had to have tight straight grain....now wider grain is acceptable...and disfigurations like bearclaw is often more desirable than straight grain!
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Wepeel
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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2010, 03:13:04 AM »

Here's the rosewood on my 00:




Definitely looks a lot different.
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zpcm04
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« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2010, 01:01:18 PM »

Wepeel,
That's really a nice looking guitar.  The color of yours was probably more what I was expecting.

I don't know if it is my imagination, or what, but it does seem to be getting darker the more it is out of its case.  Which in a way makes some sense.  I checked the serial number with Larrivee and the build date was only six weeks prior to me receiving it.  I used to do woodturning and I have a number of turnings that have darkened with age.

MaLavvo,
I see what you mean from the pictures.  I don't think it is quite as golden colored as Ovankol.  It's probably the lighting in the picture.

Dotneck,
I hear you.  Funny how things evolve.  The one thing I have to say is that this rosewood is really nicely quartersawn.  In fact, I believe the wood itself is actually probably darker than that used on my Taylor GS8.  I think the gloss finish on the Taylor made it look darker and richer, but the base wood was probably not as nice.


It is interesting to note that so much of my initial impression of the guitar was based on the way the guitar looked.  But in reality, how much of the guitar do we really look at when we play.  About the only thing I look at is the fretboard.
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PCT57
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« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2010, 08:50:14 PM »

Lovely guitar   

I am enjoying my change to a 24.75" 00 size guitar but unfortunately my Larrivee's had to go to fund it.


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broKen
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2010, 01:21:40 AM »

 :ohmy:That looks great Phil. VERY  nice guitar

You actually switched Larrivee guitars for that?    hmmm? any regrets yet?
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PCT57
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« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2010, 11:24:04 AM »

:ohmy:That looks great Phil. VERY  nice guitar

You actually switched Larrivee guitars for that?    hmmm? any regrets yet?

Thats a strange response Ken? - you say very nice guitar and then say 'you actually switched Larrivee guitars for that?' almost as though nothing could compare with a Larrivee   

Brook guitars are entirely hand made by a much respected, very small firm of luthiers here in the UK - so yes I did switch from Larrivee and for a number of reasons. I liked my Larrivee's, particularly the OM-50 and would have liked to have kept them but I could not afford to. Basically I have a wrist problem and I bought the parlor to see if that was the answer. Unfortunately the sound was inferior to the OM so I went for something in between in all respects, neck width, scale length and body size. The sound is however not in between and is comparable to the OM. The build quality is everything you should expect from a handmade guitar.

Hope this explains and I have absolutely no regrets 

The following show who Brook Guitars are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N9QZjpb8UA


http://www.brookguitars.com/
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gtrplayer
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« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2010, 02:05:56 PM »

Lovely guitar  

I am enjoying my change to a 24.75" 00 size guitar but unfortunately my Larrivee's had to go to fund it.




Nice looking guitar  PCT57.  Congratulations!     nice guitar
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