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Author Topic: P-90's and noise  (Read 2508 times)
Mikeymac
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« on: October 16, 2010, 09:37:59 PM »

So, for those of you who have an RS-4 or RS-2 with Larrivee's P-90 pickups, are you having any real issues with noise?

How do they compare to any other single coil pickups/guitars you have?

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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2010, 02:19:35 AM »

All single coil pu's are noisey,that was the reason they developed humbuckers to get rid of that nasty buzzing sound.You never really hear it when playing so too most of us it doesn't matter.My love for P90's come's from the ability to change the tonal spectrum without touching a knob just by changing my right hand attack.Oh ya P90's are high impedance and fender type's are low impedance thats why a Gibson always sounded so good thru a Fender amp they were low impedance amps.Hope this helps.By the way how's the tone of the Larrivee P90's?I haven't heard them yet.
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2010, 03:31:14 AM »

All single coil pu's are noisey,that was the reason they developed humbuckers to get rid of that nasty buzzing sound.

You never really hear it when playing so to most of us it doesn't matter.  

My love for P90's come's from the ability to change the tonal spectrum without touching a knob just by changing my right hand attack.

Oh ya P90's are high impedance and fender type's are low impedance thats why a Gibson always sounded so good thru a Fender amp they were low impedance amps.

Hope this helps.By the way how's the tone of the Larrivee P90's?I haven't heard them yet.

I don't know why, but I have more problems with noise at home than I do at church (where I "play out" most of the time). Maybe it's because at home I'm always sitting closer to the amps than I am when I'm standing in front of them at church.

Also, I didn't know that about the "low impedence/high impedence" thing...I sort of understand that, but I wouldn't mind if you said a little more about that, unclrob.
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2010, 04:06:25 AM »

Rev I would try to explain the difference but one my typing skills s*ck and I'm also not that technically smart to explain.As for why it sounds loader at home you might want to make sure that even though you have 3 prong plugs there may not be a ground wire hooked up.Also being close to it does make it more noticable.
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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2010, 04:25:01 AM »

I have a noise gate in my rig. But even without it, there's very little, if any noise coming from the p90s with the level of gain I'm using. At least not enough that would register with my deaf ears. 
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bel
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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2010, 05:29:22 PM »

I wouldnt say that fender pickups are low impedance - Lower than gibson pickups for sure, but not clasified as low impedance. Impedance is an extremely complex measurement involving inductance reactance, capacitive reactance, and frequency. In general, the lower the number of turns on a pickup and the thicker the wire the lower the impedance. True low impedance pickups are generally driven by a preamp (i.e. active pickups). I think the term you might be thinking is that fender pickups have a lower DC resistance than gibson pickups. Humbuckers and P-90's generally range from 7kohms to 16kohms. While fenders strat pups are in the 5kohms... Tele bridge pickups are an exception because they are wound to a similar resistance as a P-90 - around 7kohms.
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2010, 03:10:51 AM »

Bell thats sounds good to me but I'm not sure Ohms has anything to do with it.I've had Fender pickups from5 -7 ohms and P90's the same way.Humbuckers also fall into that range and I have measured older ones as high as 8 ohm's.Plus Barden's are humbuckers read 4 ohms.But again I may be wrong.
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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2010, 03:30:52 AM »

Lots of folks mistakenly use the ohms reading of a pickup to gauge it's output, they're often related, but different things.

DiMarzio's website lists both the ohms resistance of the pickup and an output rating - and sometimes there seems to be no correlation between the two (which is sometimes explained in the notes on the individual pickup's design and tone goals).

Bill Lawrence also has some info on his website about the various values used to measure a pickup: ohms, henries, etc.
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« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2010, 06:22:06 AM »

Bell thats sounds good to me but I'm not sure Ohms has anything to do with it.I've had Fender pickups from5 -7 ohms and P90's the same way.Humbuckers also fall into that range and I have measured older ones as high as 8 ohm's.Plus Barden's are humbuckers read 4 ohms.But again I may be wrong.

You are correct, resistance is not an indicator of output.

What I was referencing was that low impedance is not the correct term. Strat pickups will have a lower inductance than other pickups, because of the lack of steel in the pickup. Tele pickups will have a higher inductance because of the steel riser plate.

The main difference in sound from gibson to fender pickups is a result more of how the magnetic force is directed - Fenders use the magnet directly under the strings, while gibsons a steel pole under the strings.

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bel
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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2010, 06:30:54 AM »

Lots of folks mistakenly use the ohms reading of a pickup to gauge it's output, they're often related, but different things.

DiMarzio's website lists both the ohms resistance of the pickup and an output rating - and sometimes there seems to be no correlation between the two (which is sometimes explained in the notes on the individual pickup's design and tone goals).

Bill Lawrence also has some info on his website about the various values used to measure a pickup: ohms, henries, etc.

Unfortunately is there is no easy way to actually measure the true output of a guitar pickup - It's not something that can be quantified with any ease. Pickup output is in (theory) the current that is generated in the inductor (coil) when the strings are hit. The current created changes at different frequencies. So basically you have to choose a frequency and go take measurements at that frequency. pickup makers are starting to use the resonance peak frequency (the point where inductive reactance and capacitive reactance are equal) as the standard point of measurement. However try explaining that to someone. 
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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2010, 12:31:54 PM »

  wacko

 
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Mikeymac
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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2010, 06:17:29 PM »

wacko

 

I agree, unclrob!!!  +1

 

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« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2010, 12:35:46 AM »

P90s are noisy because of the large area inside the coils rectangle which picks up the noise from the air we call hum. I have a 65 Melody Maker that I put P90s on many many yers ago.. The guitar was very noisy, unusable at some clubs. Some years ago I learned a neat trick and reversed the manets in one of the pups, then switched wires also, creating a reverse wound pup relative to the other one, totally noiseless when used together as long as volume controls are the same, the pups are hum cancelling. Very neat and simple mod.. JP
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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2010, 02:48:40 AM »

jimmyp,

Most guitars today with 2 (or 3, like a Strat) single coil pickups come stock from the manufacturer with one pickup reverse wound (in the case of the Strat it's the middle pickup) to provide hum cancelling in at least one position.

I'm assuming the Larrivee P-90's are designed that way...
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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2010, 03:10:16 PM »

The term RWRP is what you are all talking about. It stands for "reverse wound, reverse polarity". The pickups are actually not wound in reverse but the start and end wires are reversed in the pickup. A humbucker is by nature RWRP because one coil is north and the other south, and the end wire of one coil is connected to the end wire from the other coil. And yes, larrivee does use RWRP on p90s.
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« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2010, 06:36:50 PM »

In general, my Larrivee P90's do not have any outstanding "noise" issues other than some feedback from the bridge pup at full volume. Keeping at 90% on volume knob has put a damper on that issue.

I have not taken mine outside home though for a live testing yet.
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Mark
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