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Barefoot Rob
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« on: August 27, 2010, 04:14:42 AM »

OK it was mentioned to start a thread about them so here goes.Over the past few weeks I've been playing around with going wireless.First thing I did was buy a system,the one I bought was from Sky,USA.It came with a headset and a lapel mic.I removed the headpiece from the mic and mounted it to my guitar via velcro.I suspend  the mic over the last frets on the neck so I get the out sound of the guitar and out of the way enough to play lead up the neck.Overall in the house I had some feedback issue but tonight I played a gig with 2 other guitar players who plug in and a electric bass player.I ran my setup thru a Mackie 402 plugged into a powered pa cab with a 12 and a horn from one output and the other to a Boss tower thingy.I could monitor myself thru my rig with very nice volumn level.Overall I was very happy with the results in this setting the next step will be working it into an acoustic/electric setting and I'm hoping for the best as I have finally decided that I am not happy with any of the pickup systems.There is only one way too amplify an acoustic guitar in my book and thats micing it.

So lets hear what you've got/tried.
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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2010, 07:09:28 AM »

Hi unclrob,

I've been working on this for a couple of weeks. I've been meaning to summarize my results but I'm still struggling with finding a good position for the microphone that gives me sufficient gain before feedback in a loud setting. As you might know from another thread about the C-ducer, I've got a sound that is almost indiscernable from a microphone and I have been able to run this at least 6 dB louder than I can get with a microphone (with no microphone bleed from other sources on the stage).  You can hear the recordings and read others' comments.

I was working on the using the headset microphone mounted on the guitar. I really like the sound of it suspended above the 14th fret but it picks up too much of other things on stage (this is the microphone bleed I mentioned above). The microphone I've be experimenting with so far is omni-directional. Even when playing solo, it tends to pickup my vocal and this can lead to phase cancellation with my vocal microphone. I'm doing lead vocals.  There are a lot of moving parts when you add the vocal microphone as a consideration.


Last night I thought I had found a good place INSIDE the guitar to mount the microphone without it being too boomy. I'll have to do some recordings to compare the sound and if it still sounds good when I let my ears settle down I'll document that more fully.

If I can't get a decent sound with the microphone inside the guitar I'll try some other directional microphones at the 14th fret again.

Do you have any idea how loud your stage environment is? Mine can get up to 95 dB (C-weighted). I don't like being that loud continuously but if I can't operate in that environment, I don't really have a solution.
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2010, 11:51:23 AM »

I made the comment about starting a wireless thread. I was half joking but also half serious. I am just starting down the path of performing once in a while at church...which caused me to amplify a flat top for the first time. Ended up buying an iMix from a forum member and installed it in my Gibson J-185.

Last week, I needed a new wireless mic at work...and ended up getting a Sennheiser G3 lavalier system. Realized the transmitter could be used with a guitar cord as well so that will be my next experiment after I get a proper cord. I don't perform that awful much so it might be more of a pain in the neck to use than to just plug straight into an amp.

But its a great wireless system so I might as well give it a try. The receiver has both outputs (balanced and unbalanced 1/4") so I can plug it right into a PA or into an amp. Pretty versatile little rig.
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2010, 12:15:40 PM »

This is what I'm using.


--== click the picture to see it in context ==--

The 1/4 inch jack cable works fine with my guitars that have pickups.  If you read the small print - the transmitter input is 1 megOhm which works fine with passive piezo pickups without preamps.

I can also use a condenser microphone with this transmitter and that's what I've been doing in the experiments I mentioned in my previous post.
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2010, 12:50:36 PM »

Went wireless only one time with an acoustic and it was a cobble job at best, but got o.k. results:

1.  Audio Technica lapel mic clipped to the inside edge of the soundhole.
2.  Sennheiser wireless beltpack
3.  FOH engineer with lots of patience.

It was pretty boomy as you can imagine, but with the simple parametric EQ on the board he was able to dial out most of the boom.

The thing with wireless systems now is that you have to be careful about whether or not you are buying a 'legal' system  with the right transmission frequency range.

Here's the FCC page on this topic:
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/wirelessmicrophones/

There's a relatively new player in this field:  E-Mu systems has a digital system that is rather clever, and affordable at the same time. 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PIPEline

You buy two of these units as they function as both a transmitter or receiver.





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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2010, 02:21:09 PM »

The level gets really loud with the acoustic/electric band due the problem with the leader.If he can't hear certain freq. he turns up.The good thing with that band is the bass player and the drummer are very into trying something with a lot less stage volumn.Stage volumn has always been the problem when working with mic's on acoustic guitars.I didn't have any bleed problem with the acoustic people I played with.I had no booming but I think that was due to me being in control of the eq'ing.
I kinda liked the vocal bleed as I only sang backup and with the vocals bleeding into the mic it place my vocals in a nice spot.I'm thinking of using the lapel mic for lead vocals.
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2010, 03:27:43 PM »

I have a Fishman Blend system in my LV-10. It has piezo and a mic. The mic is on a flexable shaft the with some experimenting can be positioned to not move (after you have found an optimum placement. Problem is the mic could be of better quality ( to my ear). Perhaps you could mount the mic you like on this shaft. Of course that means purchasing the Fishman  to only use part of it.
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2010, 04:25:03 PM »

The mic needs to be outside of the guitar.Inside the guitar you get to much woofing and bass responce.I saw part of a video of James Taylor using an external mic of some sort,so I need to find out what his tech has him using.I'm sure that with the bass player and drummer I'm working with I won't have a problem.
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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2010, 04:39:59 PM »

Maybe it was a DPA 4099 g

or the SE Electronics GM10





The mic needs to be outside of the guitar.Inside the guitar you get to much woofing and bass responce.I saw part of a video of James Taylor using an external mic of some sort,so I need to find out what his tech has him using.I'm sure that with the bass player and drummer I'm working with I won't have a problem.

edit: picture of dpa 4099g below

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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2010, 04:46:17 PM »

Now thats interesting.Back in a while I seem to have some reading and maybe some reaching to do.Thanks .
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« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2010, 04:53:54 PM »

I have looked high and low for just the mounting bracket that would allow me to add my own microphone instead of the all-in-one bracket and microphone together.

No luck.

I already have several microphones that sound great at the distances shown in the pictures (two posts up) so I really haven't wanted to buy yet another microphone for this application.

You can  read some real-user experiences with the DPA 4099g. The biggest issue seems to be bleed-through from other sound sources.
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Barefoot Rob
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« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2010, 08:02:33 PM »

I was checking out the brackets also,I'm thing that maybe I can build something myself.I'm using velcro right now that works pretty good.There is always bleed thru from mics,think about the vocal mic's in front of the band so that doesn't really concern me.When I record in a studio its done live so even then theres bleed thru.
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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2010, 05:42:46 AM »

Rob, I'm sure an inventive guy like you will be able to design and build a suitable bracket.

Kurt
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« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2011, 05:41:01 AM »

Rob - any joy in finding a bracket like the one in the photos?  I saw this from Audix for guitar speaker cabs, and thought it would be cool if there was a miniaturized version for acoustic guitar bodies:

http://www.audixusa.com/docs/products/CabGrabber.shtml

-Scott
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« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2011, 02:02:59 PM »

I have not found any clamping system that I like.So far the velcro thing works best.I need to find a wireless system that will work with mic's as oppose to pickups.The problem is most mic wireless systems don't talk to each other and since I have found the GHS A133 the best sounding for the guitar.I'm still looking into lapel mic's along the line's of what news casters use as a single sorce for both vocal and guitar but alas money{the lack of} is holding me back right now but I haven't givin up.
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