anyone replaced Larrivee slothead ping tuners ?

[lw216316]

I had been considering the Grover's  

in case you missed the info I provided about the Grovers

the defacto ' standard ' bore size seems to be approx 1/4 inch -
the Waverly and Goto tuners match that

BUT - the Grover's are a different size and require the use of bushings as I understand it.

Also, I know there are options for the larger approx 3/4 inch wide buttons with the Waverlys -

I don't know the button size on the Gotoh or Grovers -
If that matters to you -  you may want to check that out.

I don't like the small 5/8 inch buttons like the Pings have.

I'll post my results with the Waverlys and provide pics later on.

- Larry

[tuffythepug]

Larry
The Grover Sta-tites for the solid peghead do require a bushing for proper fit.  However, in looking at the Stew-mac catalog here in front of me it says that the shaft on the Waverly slothead tuner (both single and 3 on a plate) is .249" in diam.
The size of the shaft on the Grover slothead tuner (only single tuners are available) is also .249".   
I don't see why the Grover's would not fit as well as the Waverlies if this is accurate.   

There are no options for different buttons on the Grover's like there is for the Waverlies though.

There seems to be conflicting information floating around.   

Looking forward to seeing your upgrade.


Ducktrapper:    You've had your 000-50 for quite a while;  maybe you have different tuners on yours.   I don't think my comment was a "backhanded swat at the builder".  I have 4 Larrivee guitars so, obviously, I am a fan of their products.  If it's true that the Pings cost around $10 then I still think that a guitar that retails for over $3,000 should have nicer tuners from the factory. But you are correct, It's something that the owner can change an time.
How about showing a pic of the tuners on your 000-50 ?

[unclrob]

As with all products there are low end one's and high end one's.I've seen Ping,Gotoh,Schallar and Grovers from $10 to $100.I understand that some people don't like certain products and thats cool.I played a H+D that had open back Waverly's on it and I thought that those were the horrorable tuners.I replaced some Larrivee tuners wth Waverly's once and the Ping were much better.So let us remember that you can get bad tuners from anyone.I've owned over 80 Larrivee's and have worked on many more then that and never replaced the tuners.Just because you saw Pings for sale  for $8.95 doesn't mean that the one's on the Larrivee's are the same.

[lw216316]

There seems to be conflicting information floating around.

aaaahhh, Tuffy, I think I solved our mystery.
We are comparing an ORANGE to an APPLE I think  - rather than a conflict

If I understand correctly - you are looking at INDIVIDUAL tuners  
and the infor I provided is for 3 ON A PLATE GROVER VINTAGE tuners
 they are called the 138 series

here ===> http://www.grotro.com/Mainvintage.html   ( see 138 series - upper right hand corner )  

IF you click on the ' FINISHES AND SPECIFICATIONS ' tab and then click on POST HOLE SIZES

here http://www.grotro.com/ColorSpecMain.html   ( click on POST HOLE SIZES )

you get a table showing hole sizes for the various tuners - at the bottom is the hole size for the 138  3 on a plate series -

    the hole size for those is listed as 24/64 inch - that is a dog's wisker short of 3/8 inch  -   so its bigger than the 1/4 defacto standard

I did not check on the individual tuners for Grover.
So I guess you are right about the individual tuner hole size  THE ORANGE
AND
I am right about the 3 on a plate series 138 hole size.           THE APPLE

So - if you use 6 individual Grover tuners based on what your reported they should fit the Ping 1/4 inch holes
and  if you use 3 -on a plate with its 3/8 inch hole it will not fit the 1/4 ping hole without modification

MYSTERY SOLVED - i think  

- Larry

[tuffythepug]

Larry
It makes sense now.   The Stew-mac catalog does not even list the 138 series3-on-a-plate Grovers;  only the individual tuners.
For my purposes the individual tuners might be ok anyway.    Thanks for straightening me out.


T the P

[lw216316]

Larry  It makes sense now.   The Stew-mac catalog does not even list the 138 series3-on-a-plate Grovers;  only the individual tuners.
For my purposes the individual tuners might be ok anyway.    Thanks........ 

You are very welcome T the P 

...glad to solve a mystery 

- Larry

[gschaps]

... but will probably have different screw hole spacing like I'm told 90 % of replacements do. 

I think so.  It appears you're going to have six holes (on a side) where there now are four.  I'm interested in seeing pictures once you've got them in.  Thanks!

[ducktrapper]

Ducktrapper:    You've had your 000-50 for quite a while;  maybe you have different tuners on yours.   I don't think my comment was a "backhanded swat at the builder".  I have 4 Larrivee guitars so, obviously, I am a fan of their products.  If it's true that the Pings cost around $10 then I still think that a guitar that retails for over $3,000 should have nicer tuners from the factory. But you are correct, It's something that the owner can change an time.
How about showing a pic of the tuners on your 000-50 ?

Well, it's one of the first ones and a TSB, if that matters. I don't have a good picture of the tuners, I'll try to take one later and put it up somehow. I've always found every thing about the guitar screams quality, however. A similar guitar from any other maker, imo, would be priced considerably higher. Hypothetically, if one of the reasons is the tuners, I could live with that.    

[webberink]

Larry
Just to muddy the waters, did you consider these German made tuners sold at Elderlys?
http://elderly.com/accessories/items/AART1.htm
Dave

[lw216316]

These are 3-on-a-plate style for 6-string guitars with slotted headstocks and all feature brass plates & posts,
.236" post diameter and a
post spacing of 1.3775"(on-center),
16:1 gear ratio, steel worm gear and
small oval buttons.

....that last part, SMALL oval buttons -   is not for me - small probably means about 5/8 inch - I prefer the larger approx 3/4 inch buttons

I ordered the vintage style - larger button Waverlys on Tuesday from Stew-mac
They were delivered today.

...but perhaps someone else considering a replacement can benefit from the info you posted -
its always nice to have options.

- Larry

[Zohn]

Larry
Just to muddy the waters, did you consider these German made tuners sold at Elderlys?
http://elderly.com/accessories/items/AART1.htm
Dave

Wow, those are nice  - I fancy the engraved nickel ones with the ivoroid buttons - they are somewhat expensive though...

[Zohn]

(  gitnoob, pm me your address and after the Waverlys get installed I'll mail you the Pings as you requested )

I have decided to go with Waverly.

From that group I have chosen the ivoroid vintage style

here - http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_slotted_peghead_tuners/Waverly_Slotted_Peghead_Guitar_Tuners/Waverly_Machines_for_Slotted_Pegheads_with_Ivoroid_Vintage-style_Knob.html

- Larry

Haven't visited this thread lately - wow, those are nice Larry, and I think they will look good...
Good for you mate!

[Zohn]

I must have got a good set. I find mine to be just fine, whoever made them. They tune and detune easily and accurately and if I haven't played it for a week or so ... it's still in tune. Am I missing something here?
In the end, however, swapping out perfectly good tuning machines for a machine that is perceived to be better is a respected tradition and a recognized first step towards gearheadedness. I remember when Schaller tuners first appeared or got popular way back when and gearheaded folks began swapping out their Grovers with disdainful remarks towards them. So it goes. What I don't get and dislike is the backhanded swats at the builder for using the dreaded passé machines. Who cares? Shut up and change them. 

My SD has a good set of those as well. I'm happy with it, and the bass E string is tuned up and down frequently.
The engraved ones look nice though...

[lw216316]

Haven't visited this thread lately - wow, those are nice Larry, and I think they will look good...
Good for you mate!

Thanks Zohn.
I removed the pings temporarily and set the Waverlys in place
to check for fit and appearance.

They fit but of course the screw holes don't line up.  ( These new ones are individual tuners the old ones are 3 on a plate )

I was going to install them myself but at least one of the old screw holes partially covers the area
where a new screw hole needs to go.
Looks like some filler might be needed etc...and I don't care to attempt that myself.

So , I'm going to let my tech guy install them.

The rollers fit the hole and there is a tiny bit of looseness.
I'll let my tech guy decide if the fit is ok or if bushings are needed.

I got the gold version and the gold matches beautifully with the rosewood.
The ivory color tuners match the ivory color of the Larrivee logo on the head stock.
( I would rather have the REAL WOOD buttons made of snakewood - but they are not available in the larger button size )

The larger  ( approx 3/4 inch wide ) buttons feel much more comfortable to me than the smaller ( approx 5/8 inch ) Ping buttons.

- Larry

[tuffythepug]

The rollers fit the hole and there is a tiny bit of looseness.
I'll let my tech guy decide if the fit is ok or if bushings are needed.

- Larry

Larry,
I'm thinking that the looseness will disappear when the tuners are installed and tightened down and strings are attached..   Seems to me like the looseness you noted may just be the necessary tolerance for the roller to turn freely without undue friction.    But, I could be wrong...   I often am.
I'll be watching for your report after the installation is complete.

[lw216316]

I'm thinking that the looseness will disappear when the tuners are installed and tightened down and strings are attached..   

I think so too Mr. Tuffy. 
I did not put any screws in just slid them in for a quick check.

Yea, for you and the others who have expressed interest - I will report the results after they get installed by my tech guy.

I think he is on the road right now - usually gets back within a week.

stay tuned for futher developments 

[ducktrapper]

Ducktrapper:    You've had your 000-50 for quite a while;  maybe you have different tuners on yours.   I don't think my comment was a "backhanded swat at the builder".  I have 4 Larrivee guitars so, obviously, I am a fan of their products.  If it's true that the Pings cost around $10 then I still think that a guitar that retails for over $3,000 should have nicer tuners from the factory. But you are correct, It's something that the owner can change an time.
How about showing a pic of the tuners on your 000-50 ?

Whew, finally. It took a few attempts and some resizing etc. but here it is. Fresh this morning.



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[tuffythepug]

Duck
Thanks
Same as mine..  guess they haven't changed them recently.  Was wondering if you ever put any lubricant on the gear ?

[ducktrapper]

Duck
Thanks
Same as mine..  guess they haven't changed them recently.  Was wondering if you ever put any lubricant on the gear ?

A demi-smidge of light machine oil. Thanks for reminding me. 

[maLavvo]

Diameter of each roller: 6,3mm
Distance between rollers - centre to centre: 35mm
The pitch between mounting screw 1 to 2: 31mm
between 2 and 3: 37mm
between 3 and 4: 31mm
For a "drop-in" installation the dimension from each roller to the respective mounting screw position will also be significant, but I believe could be plugged and should be able to be covered by the plates.


I also have the OM-03R SH with exact same tuners as the earlier post.  I've been looking around for a nicer looking replacement and based on the measurements posted by Zohn above, looks like most if not all that I see have measurements that are not the same.   That means this won't fit?









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